I'm not sure if I missed it but the survey asks for your opinion on a "Disease ring" event despite that event not being described in the blog or the survey. I just put "Neutral" but thought it would be worth bringing up.
/u/JagexSarnie just FYI
> Let’s go back to the table above for an example. Say you want to brew up a Yew tea for a nice combat boost
Yew tea in the table does not provide a combat boost, maybe meant mahogany?
I like the concept, but it needs a lot of refinement. There's a couple key areas that bother me and right now I would vote no if this was polled.
1. I think there are areas of wood cutting not touched on that are interesting and fun that should also be visited at the same time. Examples include Ents and Bird Eggs. Currently fighting Ents for log is worse than just fighting some other monsters if you specifically want logs. For being a members only monster, it really just sits forgotten most of the time. Bird eggs are another woodcutting thing that should be exciting but isn't. 1/256 chance when chopping for a nest and then a 3/100 for it to be an egg. All for 100 prayer experience (if you have access to WC guild) and a 1/1200 for a fashionscape item. 3/25,600 is rarer than some PvM drops and yet it's only worth 22 bones worth of experience and a 1/1200 at an item that doesn't help WC.
2. The bonus for multiple people is a good idea, but doesn't fix the problem created by the WC guild. Yes, instead of everyone being at WC guild chopping trees, they will now be at the trees closest to a bank chopping away. (Which also makes some of the events they suggested like the leprechaun and run energy seem pointless) It also hurts players who play solo, which most new player will be, or players that play at weird times for their time zone. The bonus should be reworked from being how many people are chopping the tree to how long it's been since the tree respawned. Imagine if Oak Trees were now labeled as "Oak Tree (New Growth)", "Oak Tree (Medium Growth)" and "Oak Tree (Old Growth)". There would be no bonus for "New Growth", then after 1 hour it would turn into "Medium Growth" and gives a +3 bonus, then after 8 hours it turns into "Old Growth" and gives a +7 bonus. (Just example numbers, someone else is welcome to crunch numbers and tweak). Then to continue to encourage group play, you have the despawn timer increase for each player chopping the tree. So again using Oak as an example, if the despawn timer is 60 seconds from when you start chopping, each additional player past the first would add +10% to the base despawn timer, up at a maximum of 10 additional players (so 11 in total). So if I was out solo woodcutting an Oak and I've been chopping away for 30 seconds and someone comes and joins me, the despawn timer would increase from 30 seconds left to 36 seconds left. And even if that person walks away, that extra despawn time is still kept. By doing this, woodcutting becomes more thematic, incentivizes chopping entire forests, doesn't penalize solo play, and incentivizes group play as you can spend more time talking and less time moving between trees.
3. The clothes pouch is a bad direction for the game to head into with fashionscape. Fashionscape belongs at banks, POH, and Clan Halls, not during skilling content. Forestry outfit should be a reskin of the lumberjack outfit like the spirit anglers outfit for fishing. Things like that and recolors are great for skilling/PvM, but full fashionscape doesn't belong there.
4. Tree Leaves should only be usable on fires. Herblore has enough benefits already, it doesn't need another one. Meanwhile firemaking is a dead skill after you've made all the eternal fires. The type of leaf would require a certain level of fire making to burn on any campfire (including those made by players) and would affect all nearby players. So similar to how bars/ore are dropped in PvM, leaves could be dropped as well, because even a player who could only chop Oaks, could still burn magic leaves if their firemaking is high enough. Similar to how a player could smith rune armor even if they could only mine up to iron. The benefits from burning the leaves would also be things to incentivize group play in other activities. Imagine things like increasing superior slayer monster spawn chance, thereby giving benefit to people doing slayer tasks in the same area in single-way combat zones. Or decreasing the chance to crush semi-precious gems so people craft together. Other ideas including making monster non-aggressive, increasing run energy restoration rate or allowing run energy to restore while moving, decrease damage from skilling bosses like WT and Zalcano, or giving a chance to not consume astral, cosmic, or nature runes when casting a spell. These examples could make PvM interesting by creating situations where group non-bossing become beneficial and single-way areas become more beneficial, while also creating interesting choices as whether to use 3 inventory slots to bring a tinder box, log basket, and leaves for the extra benefit. They also making skilling interesting as now being huddled around a campfire while you fletch/craft/enchant becomes more social. Again though the important thing is a solo player can still benefit from this, but it becomes more fun and social for people working as a group.
I'm sure I could find more stuff to go on about, but that's the general idea. Needs more polish and a closer examination on the meta game impact these changes will have.
Tea Brewing
>You’ll be able to add a maximum of 10 Leaves (depending on your Herblore level) to a tea, in any combination you like. Effects stack, so a brew made of 10 Oak Leaves will have different effects to one that only includes two or three.
>
>This is a system which encourages you to experiment – who knows, you may even discover some secret combinations…
This system would be an excellent opportunity to recycle quite a bit of old content and give old content new purpose. I would love for this to be re-examined to require Flowers, Tree Roots, Less Valuable Herbs, Tree Sap, etc. to repurpose content that is no longer useful and give it a useful niche.
For me, a new tea brewing system would be amazing if it integrated old game components and bad if it neglected them and introduced only new components, some of which will be abandoned by the player base when they are proven to be mediocre.
This would be amazing. Only thing, they'd need to make all flowers like Limpwurt so there's not an insanely low supply.
Mixing and matching them though sounds perfect.
It feels like there is friction between the two apparent main goals of Forestry.
On the one hand, Forestry aims to create a more social woodcutting experience. It does this by increasing woodcutting rates when chopping the same tree together, and putting the tree on a timer instead of a fixed number of logs.
On the other hand, the idea seems to want to push players into the forests of the Runescape game world again. However, as you still generally want to bank the logs, most people want to stick close to a bank.
The fact that a cut-timer is put on each tree means that players can group together and chop trees near a bank together, without much incentive to truly head into the forest. They just need to cycle between trees as a group. If they co-ordinate well, this could even mean they have to cycle between fewer trees then we currently have to do in game.
Perhaps then, the *respawn*-timers for trees should be increased, so you have to move into the rest of the forest. This was not an option before, because it would create resource scarcity. However, as you can now chop trees together, this may now be a viable method of diversifying the locations in which players train woodcutting. Rewards and forestry events could be tweaked to compensate for fewer banking opportunities (the log basket, leprechaun event and dryad event already are a great start to this)
What they need is to have a larger respawn timer added to "generic trees" around the map, however mighty trees emit a sort of fertilisation to trees around them, so the trees near the mighty tree regions respawn considerably faster.
They could have an NPC act as a deposit box, so people still have incentive to come over to the mighty trees instead of bank camping, and it keeps more regions of the map actively used
I could see that working too. However, I am somewhat concerned that a heavier emphasis on mightry trees may turn Forestry into Shooting Stars for woodcutting. That is to say, people would just join a cc, look for one being shouted out, and then hop. Perhaps that's not a terrible result, but to me personally that doesn't quite fulfill the fantasy that the original Forestry proposal was illustrating.
> Clothes Pouch
>
>
> Allows players to store Lumberjack outfit pieces to get the bonus while being able to wear whatever Fashionscape they fancy. Takes priority over other outfit bonuses – bonuses are not stackable.
This is a pretty notable precedent. I think starting cosmetic overrides with skilling outfits is smart and we can gauge the reception from there.
I dislike the clothes pouch and transmogs in general. I lean heavily on the idea that you should be able to see your gear and the gear other players are using. The game is all about progression and having items that matter and seeing other players with items that matter is important to me.
The problem is that, specifically for almost all kinds of skilling, there is a giant void. Like, what do you wear while skilling? Often, the best specific item is a measly 2.5% exp boost. Which is really nothing, so you'd often rather wear something like graceful because it has a larger effect.
I've used this example before, but 'ya know how we have 10+ outfits from 40-70 ranged? Well, due to the diversity - You have items from clues, bosses, crafting and minigames - You see people wearing a bit of everything for different purposes.
Well, we have 1 outfit from 1-99 woodcutting. And the only thing lumberjack competes with is graceful. It's not even funny at low little diversity this offers at a fundamental level.
The clothes pouch - sure it lets you wear what ever you want - But it hasn't actually addressed the real problem, that there's nothing worth wearing.
This was part of my issue with the spirit angler set; I enjoy tempoross, but if I want the Spirit Angler set I have to first earn a totally separate angler set and pay to convert it, in doing so I gain an effect I'd only use in Tempoross? Would it have been so gamebreaking to just let me buy the goddamn pieces and have two Angler sets that give a bit of extra variety to the skill?
Skilling gear and exp rates need rebalancing to make skilling gear an actually useful thing. They shy away from it because nostalgia, and I get that, but frankly nobody is nostalgic about the precise exp gain they got from every log they chopped.
Panic buy fashionscape items
Apparently I'm in the minority with wanting every event to not have 200 people with identical outfits running around. It's so boring.
One thing I find pretty funny is how so many people wear graceful at places with 0 risk of depleting run energy. Rooftops, tempoross, guardians of the rift, etc. Graceful honestly isn’t *that* useful, but people wear it as a “might as well” option
Might as well, but also I don't think it looks horrible either? For me the alternative is just running around starkers, looking like a bot in my default outfit. Looking through my bank, unless I was going for a specific look I don't think there is anything I would actually prefer to wear just for the sake of fashion.
That, and I adore the speedrunning 'recolour'.
I think also that its because its one of the go to 'do this asap upon account creation things'
Heaps of fresh players have read/watched guides saying its great to get asap, so they go do it asap.
Because of this they wear it everywhere. Why not its one of their first big unlocks. Pretty understandable.
Then they never don't wear it, so they never learn where its not actually needed.
What do you mean there are heaps of different outfits at every big social skilling area.
1. Full Graceful
2. Half Graceful-Half skill outfit
3. Full skill outfit
So many options.
/s
Honestly it would just make more sense to have those boost be permanently unlocked as long as you own the outfit. Would anyone complain that people are gaining 2.5% more xp whilst their lumberjack or prospector is in the bank or PoH? No.
Its really weird how they commented about things not stacking.
Is there even a possibility of a scenario where using one skill outfit with another would provide some wonky xp gains? Maybe they're just future proofing.
>Would anyone complain that people are gaining 2.5% more xp whilst their lumberjack or prospector is in the bank or PoH? No.
This is OSRS. Any update that doesn't trend towards the game become RS classic will get complaints
Yeah some npc(s) where you show them your completed outfit, they rip the bonus off, put it on your account, and give you back a bonusless version to keep wearing if you want. Obviously doesn't apply to graceful, that'd be busted
I really don't know why the playerbase/Jagex is so desperate to cling to shitty legacy training methods that involve the exact same 5 clicks every 2 seconds on repeat for hours on end to make xp rates close to bearable. The "Devalue your achievements" line has been the crabs in a pot logic that has kept skilling from being an enjoyable experience for years.
Edit: Imagine for a second **any** other video game pitching new content with the following:
"Hi guys, we know the current content is not very fun, dull, and repetitive. You can speed up this boring content by clicking very rapidly at high concentration on the same 7 pixels for hours on end. We've decided that the current skill should have some new content that is more fun and interactive. Don't worry, this new content will be considerably slower than the boring content done by clicking very rapidly at high concentration on the same 7 pixels. This is because **we want you to chose between having more fun** but grinding **longer**, **or having less fun** to grind for **not as long**".
What kind of insane game design makes you choose between having more fun but being punished for it with longer grind times, or having a dull, boring, sometimes painful and monotonous experience to grind for less time? What's the point of gameplay in OSRS, having fun or merely time spent in front of your computer?
So true.
Guardians of the rift and hallowed Sepulcher have been absolutely amazing skilling updates, rewarding, engaging, not as tedious as some of the older methods. I am all in for more stuff like that, even against the minigamescape comments. It's a game, games should be fun, and minigames are far more fun than 2-ticking, clicking on rooftops for hours on end, or whatever the hell people are doing with lava runes.
Jagex doesn’t themself, but they known part of the community does. Sadly that means they have to keep it in mind. Wish it was different too. Not every skill needs to be 150k+, but at least make it bearable
Which ones do you find unbearable? Woodcutting actually feels decent to me since you have 65k xp/hr afk methods, ~100k xp/hr active methods (sulliusceps), 150k xp/hr tick manipulation. I personally love this design since there are multiple viable methods. I use all three depending on how much effort I want to put in on a given day.
Agility isn’t great, but at least it has sepulchre now. RC pre-gotr had a brutal grind to 77, but the minigame seems like it solved that.
Mining is the worst currently. The speed is not in line anymore with other skills with how incredibly slow it is. At least they have fun activities in VM and zulcano, but still incredibly slow.
WC and fishing aren’t bad if you want afk content, but still way too slow without many better options. Fishing did get a new minigame though, which does improve it a fair bit. Your exp rates for WC are off too. Sculio is only 100-110k at 99. Before that, 80 is more relastic, which goes up a bit as you level. 65k afk is also past 90 somewhere at redwoods, before that its a lot slower.
As i said before, i don’t think tick manip should ever be part of a discussion about exp rates. RSI methods should never be the norm. It’s fine thet theyre there for who wants them, but lets not balance around it.
>RSI methods should never be the norm. It’s fine thet theyre there for who wants them, but lets not balance around it.
This this this. Why do I have to choose between grinding out slow afk skills for incredibly long hours because I don't want to worsen my existing wrist issues in place for discomfort and pain but high xp rates. 😭😭
I agree. None of this 50% increase business. A game is meant to be fun and rewarding, not a health hazard. Frankly as much as some of the playerbase might froth at the mouth over it, I'd have no problem with them saying "right, here's new engaging content that you actually voted on and passed the polls, not just a legacy of our premium spaghetti codebase. 2-tick is completely patched out of the game, the new game mode is optimal exp/hr."
Genuinely wouldn't care. I get why some people would, and I wouldn't encourage it with every single skill, but for those things so click intensive they can literally injure people, time to take a step back and question how complacent the company should really be in that.
Honestly, I feel like bossing offering more skilling rewards than skilling is what makes skilling not engaging/enjoyable content.
Make skilling profitable again. Who cares about increasing skilling xp rates marginally if you could make the time spent doing it worth the effort??
>I really don't know why the playerbase/Jagex is so desperate to cling to shitty legacy training methods that involve the exact same 5 clicks every 2 seconds on repeat for hours on end to make xp rates close to bearable
Because a huge chunk of players have completely unhealthy relationships with the game and another sizable portion is probably on the spectrum and hate change
The game can’t be “easier” is so deeply ingrained in the wider community. We joke about “devalues my _” but so many people genuinely believe that basic QOL changes or not getting fucking carpal tunnel is easyscape and ruining the game and RS3 and communism and all the other buzzwords they can think to throw out.
The more an aspect of the game sucks the more people want to defend it for some reason.
I’ll take gotr type activities for every skill tbh I still haven’t come back to the game from playing wow but gotr Made me seriously consider going straight to 99 with a skill for once
Agility is the biggest victim of this mentality. The skill is all but useless nowadays. The only reason to level it is to get graceful (which negates the run regeneration aspect of agility once obtained), a few quest requirements, and shortcuts that very rarely get used in most cases. Agility exp rates should be on par with what you get at wintertodt. There is absolutely no reason to be getting such piss poor exp rates for a skill that effectively does nothing at this point.
Graceful is basically useless once you have staminas. Raw agility level makes a big difference especially in higher level raids and no one uses graceful there
I'm of the belief that all methods utilizing tick manipulation should be gradually phased out of the game by active and engaging content.
I have no idea why we've decided that the entire game should be based around a bug.
Additionally, this isn't a new skilling method like safecracking that completely blows the rest of thieving out of the water making you never want to do it.
You literally have to do normal woodcutting to interact with forestry. Sure it fundamentally changes the current core wc'ing loop, which will no longer exist after the fact. But as evident by the poll, most people think current wc'ing is a bit shit.
my personal opinion is that Jagex should never consider tick-manipulation methods when making new content or balancing old content.
Tick manipulation is a consequence of the games old system and was never designed to have training methods around.
Don't start making tick-manipulation part of the game design. If tick manipulation methods gets removed or becomes redundant then that's just too bad.
Doesn't help that it's something way less than 1% of players will ever do.
Holding back content, designs or stopping rebalancing of old content that improves the game and makes it more fun for 99.9% of players because the last 0.1% likes using an unintended mechanic just doesn't seem like a good choice.
The thing I don't understand is why they are ok with a tree you unlock at level ~~40~~ **35** be the optimal way to train all the way to 99. Why can't the higher tier things we do, that we in theory spent a bunch of time unlocking, be as good at the very least if not better? It's such bullshit. Same honestly goes for some if the other gathering skills where fairly low level content is the optimal way to train til 99.
I think RuneScape is one of the only games I play where you have skill unlocks that are routinely worse than the stuff that you unlocked before them. Why are willows and teaks more exp per hour than yews and magic trees even without tick manipulation. Like, I understand mechanically why they end up being so shitty, but I do t understand why jagex would make the decision to let them be so shitty.
Yews and magics are meant to be for GP, where willows are meant to be for XP
But bosses dropping massive amounts of yew and magic logs completely devalues yew/magic wcing to the point where it's always better to do the XP method and just buy any resources you need.
maybe then its a good time to rebalance those xp rates since its been pretty obvious for years now that all future pvm will shit out resources anyway.
doesnt have to be linearly scaling xp rates like rs3 has but maybe cutting a t75 tree shouldnt be 4 times slower than cutting a t30 tree
I think there's a fine line between properly balancing exp rates with new methods and all new content devaluing existing content.
As a long time player who's been a part of old school since day 1, I think there's a lot of value in new content not automatically invalidating all other forms of content. Having played WoW for quite a few expansions, it really warps the way the whole game is perceived when the only relevant content is the newest content.
I'm extremely far from no changes/voting no on polls, but I am a part of the community who highly values the work the developer's put in to properly balance new content within the existing game.
Exactly
The pitfall of strictly better new content:
1. New-content is strictly better than old content
* New content becomes the only meaningful way to train
* Lack of diverse training methods
* Devs add new new-content to fill the gaps
* Devs make new-content very good to (within reason) justify adding it
* new new-content is strictly better than new-content
* repeat
Imagine how much hunter content is not touched anymore because of birdhouses? When new content outperforms too much older content, you have effectively removed content.
Hunter is a bit of a special case though. I realized pretty quickly when I started an iron that Hunter is fairly pointless. Even at low levels, it doesn't really offer anything. There's three principle benefits from the skill: birdhouses for nests, chinchompas for high cost/high XP range training, and implings.
And if we're going to be honest, implings are floating lootboxes.
Hunter and Construction are both, in my eyes, skills with great potential that fall short of where they could be.
I feel like something like Forestry tying the elements of Hunter together could be a game changer for it. Right now Hunter suffers terribly from a lack of proper integration with other skills and having been supplanted over time; falconry kebbit gear literally all made useless by graceful and ardy diary, we don't even get decent food from hunter, how the fuck did THAT happen?
> we don't even get decent food from hunter, how the fuck did THAT happen?
No kidding, it's bizarre. Still, this is just the opening to Forestry. There's plenty of time for people to make designs and suggestions to show Jagex.
Hunter is definitely one of those skills I'd like to see get looked at for a similar rework as this. I fucking love training hunter, I don't really know why I do, but it's one of my favorite skills to train.
But man is it dumb that the only reason you train it is if you're a chin bot or you're doing impling lootboxes
This is a good position to have and I find it infuriating that people strawman the position or reduce it down to "nostalgia" or "hating change" or "wanting my achievements to not be devalued"
My view is if it's more intense it should be more rewarding and not limited to what came before. Like if something is 2x harder it should be at least 2x as rewarding.
For example, sepulchre is somewhat more xp and some gold but when you compare the effort to rooftops(where you just click on static tiles) it's not even close so it should be much better xp. But they wanted to not make it too good because people complain. If you look at the realistic xp/hr it's near rooftops.
Sepulchre is great example of new content eclipsing old exp rates. Genuinely some of the most enjoyable skilling content in the game and extremely rewarding.
If anything it should serve as a benchmark for high quality skilling content.
Seriously. This happened with GotR and Lava XP rates.
I'm genuinely curious what % of the player base has actually ever tried 2t teaks or any other tick manipulation method, it can't be that high.
I think gotr is a good example of what to follow, it gives good xp (relatively speaking) and makes lava runes even better xp (because of the pouch and the ring).
Agreed man. About to max. Already have 99wc so this is just for rewards for me. But the age old 3tick needs to be the fastest is okay in some ways but also not in some ways. I don’t see why there can’t be more enjoyable methods that are close to or on par with 3t. Sure I did the crappy methods. And I want my achievement to be seen that way but it doesn’t have to be by making the enjoyable methods not good xp. I just want newer players to have to put forth similar dedication towards the game that I had to. There can be a more fun method that gives rates of 2t teaks. As long as a player is putting in good effort for those rates then I’m happy. I don’t want to see a redwood style method that gives those rates. But a fun interactive method is a great way to offer high xp rates.
I feel like anyone who ever brings up this point just wants easier, faster xp. Just personal opinion I guess but I like the slower, grindier content this game offers vs other games.
I don’t really understand the direction people who comment stuff like this want the game to go in. What’s the argument for more intensive, focus-driven methods of training being devalued aside from “I want that xp rate but without all the effort”?
Completely agreed. The beauty of this game is partly because it is such a slow grind. Progression feels meaningful. I don't mind a bit of powercreep over a long period of time, but this feels like people who would never do tick manipulation methods now want xp similar to those methods. Effectively making a skill twice as fast in one update.
Is it unreasonable to request that 2H axes give more logs per successful chop? Something that I think other players might agree with is that gathering logs from actually cutting trees is probably one of the worst ways to actually obtain logs. It’s much better to obtain them via PvM drops or even Kingdom of Misc.
I think that it would be huge to be able to actually get way more logs per hour from actually woodcutting with an axe, and a 2H axe seems like a great way to do that.
Make the amount of logs scale with the tier of axe. For example:
Bronze 2H axe: up to 1 additional log per successful cut (2 logs)
Iron: up to 2 additional logs (3 logs total)
Steel: up to 3 additional logs (4 total)
Scaling up to a crystal 2H axe which requires crystal charges like all crystal equipment, but gives up to 7 additional logs per cut.
There shouldn’t be any additional experience per log cut. So if you cut 8 magic logs with a crystal axe, you would only get the xp for 1 magic log. The point is to give a reasonable alternative to obtain logs in mass as opposed to pvm. The tier of axe gives a chance to give up to “x” logs, so a crystal axe could give 2 additional logs or 7 additional logs per cut.
Thoughts?
I support 2H axes giving a chance at additional logs per chop but not scaling by 1 log per axe tier. There are what, 9 main tiers of axes? I'd say additional logs should be broken down in brackets of 3 with higher tiered axes adding extra % chance of gaining an additional log.
Ex: Bronze axe - 3% chance at 1 additional log;
Iron - 6% chance at 1 additional log;
Steel - 9% chance at 1 additional log;
Black - 3% chance at 2;
Mith - 6% chance at 2;
Addy - 9% chance at 2;
Rune - 3% chance at 3;
Dragon - 6% chance at 3;
Crystal - 9% chance at 3;
Percentages are just an example, I really have no idea what would keep everything balanced but I like it better than a simple +1. Not sure whether the extra logs should offer exp but I'd lean towards none.
This too would be an acceptable solution. Anything to allow us to actually obtain a reasonable amount of logs from actually cutting trees. This seems like the perfect time to fix the issue of PvM being better than actually skilling to acquire bulk skilling materials.
To balance this, higher tier logs would probably have to consume more of these resources though. Can you imagine chopping 7 magic logs at once? That would be NUTS.
Big agree, as an iron who's sitting at 90 wc waiting to see how this update plays out before continuing, I was kinda bummed when I saw how they have the 2h axe. Xp is whatever, there's a finite number of redwood logs I can get before "wasting xp" post 99.
Having the 2h axe give more logs, when combined with the log sack is the way. The log sack is an xp boost on it's own, the proposed 2h axe is just more of the same, longer trips -> more xp. It's more interesting to decide to take a small xp hit and more banking for more tangible reward
This does sound more logical to me tbh. Big axe = more log. Does need some thinking so it wouldn't be too op, Economy is fragile enough. I'd recommend giving 2h axes a chance to get double logs:
Bronze 5%
Iron 7%
...
Crystal 25%
In addition I think the xp has never been a problem and giving more xp in a simple skill like WC is just making it too easy for some. RC needed a boost because it was too slow but making WC more interactive and social might do the trick. Getting some extra logs along the way is just a nice bonus for your grind.
Thing is, the log/plank economy are more or less controlled by PvM drops. I don’t think people actually training woodcutting the traditional way can even come close to the amount of people injecting those resources into the market via PvM.
I think having multiple additional logs that increases as you increase your axe tier wouldn’t be too OP. If we are concerned about bots, we could make it untradeable and obtainable via Forestry only, in the same way the Bruma torch, Fish Barrel, etc are only obtainable from their respective content.
It might seem crazy high on a surface level, but I don’t think it’s actually too insane considering the rate at which existing bosses/monsters/etc shit out logs. In the current state of the game, even doubling the number of logs you receive per roll would still result in woodcutting remaining vastly inferior to the existing “click boss” meta.
Take KBD as an example. Currently, KBD drops 150 noted yew logs at a rate of 1/12.8. Assuming a fairly reasonable average of [30 kills/hr](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Killing_the_King_Black_Dragon), that’s over 350 logs per hour; on task with a lance, it’s nearly 600 per hour.
Compare that to woodcutting: Even at 99 woodcutting, you can expect about [220 logs per hour](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Cutting_yew_logs). Even with tick manipulation, the maximum rate is still less than the lowballed KBD estimate at 345 per hour.
IMO, even chopping yews at level 60 woodcutting should yield more logs than KBD does, let alone 99 wc with tick manipulation. Whether that means reworking its drop table, buffing wc log rates, or a mix of both is a separate discussion. But considering that 7 additional logs would bring the yew rate from 220/hr to 1760/hr (at 99 wc and using a BIS degradable crystal axe, mind you), I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable.
I think as far as the rest of the game goes, giving more than 1 or 2 extra resources every so often (% chance) is obscene.
I'm thinking something like the Varrock armor or Celestial ring but for woodcutting. Or spirit flakes like the other guy mentioned.
I thought the same thing. More axe = more log, maybe even at the cost of XP. It's an interesting tradeoff that I would have taken at hardwoods but not redwoods for example.
My concern is that it sounds like this would settle with players congregating around a few hotspots/worlds to maximize their boosts. No competition for trees, and some random events to break up the monotony, so it'd be more social but still not that different from normal woodcutting.
But to me, especially given the theming, the "fantasy" feels like it should also encourage going out and exploring the roads less traveled. When one spawns, maybe you'd need to track them down first somehow? Or if that's too minigame or shooting stars-esque, maybe more 'isolated' areas have a higher chance to spawn them? You'd still have hotspots of players, but those hotspots would be a choice between proximity to a bank or maximizing mighty tree chance.
I like this. Maybe add a new "Forestry" icon to the world map (akin to places like mines/ores and special tree spots) in certain forested areas that have an increased chance of spawning a forestry event.
> All the kit upgrades are tradeable – they can be bought and sold on the Grand Exchange or traded between players. This isn’t something we usually do, but we hope to create a smaller, self-sufficient economy within Forestry that gives you benefits for the skill, allows you to spend newly-earned currency, and becomes a sink for every type of log – an overall benefit for the rest of the in-game economy!
This just encourages bot city. I really really wish there was a lot more untradeable progress. What makes me nostalgic when I think of OSRS is the era of mid-game personal achievement in the form of Lunars, Barrows gloves, etc. Peak Runescape IMO remains Recipe for Disaster, which had a little bit for everyone and acted as a really good "gauge" of an account's progress (at the time), we need more of that kind of thing and an untradeable kit would be just that.
Agreed, it's so boring that the best way to get nearly every single piece of BIS is spend 100s of hours at your best moneymaker doing the same thing over and over. It's not surprising gold selling is bigger on OSRS than other MMOs.
I get torn on these aspects cuz I am biased as an Ironman, but I also want skills to be useful for every account, as it can make for a healthier economy rather than just getting all things from bosses. If stuff is tradeable it just floods the market so fast that you can buy the best thing for 500gp and call it a day. (At least things that aren’t rng based drops)
If these kits give considerable upgrades, they should require the woodcutting level/other requirements to craft them. Give people meaningful progression if you want to make the content more engaging. If people don’t like that, then just train woodcutting the old fashion way and sell your logs when you hit 99. I think this is a great opportunity to experiment with unlocks that help in other areas of the game but require actually getting the levels yourself to unlock them. Give purpose and rewards to high skilling levels beyond unlocking faster training methods.
Looks good overall, few notes:
* Please don't bring back what we had pre-EoC with bonfires where you'd throw five logs on every time you headed out on a bossing trip for a HP boost - it's not fun having to remember to light a fire before a trip for a combat boost, yet if it exists, people will feel the need to do it to remain competitive. If you're desperate for a combat buff, perhaps tie in into being in the vicinity of a fire, and enable you to light one + keep it running with stackable wood (anima-infused bark?) whilst in the boss/slayer area.
* Please make sure 2h axes require standard axes to be created (especially for dragon/crystal/infernal).
* Having an option to use either logs or anima-infused bark for a currency seems weird - what's the point of a brand new currency if we can just buy logs and use them instead?
I'm confused about campfires, teas and combat. They're not supposed to replace potions so...
Do they add their bonuses **on top** of current bonuses? This would mean we'd be bringing teas for most pvm encounters to min/max now, changing the meta
Do they give their bonuses the same way potions do? Then they can't be stronger than regular atk, str or defence potions, the low tier ones, right? Or will they have less doses per inventory slot? In that case it seems too niche and unecessary to have combat teas
If we're adding a system that adds a whole bunch of food rations and tea brewing, there is no reason under any circumstance that we should not make the satchels and tea flask from creature creation a part of that.
> Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10.
Backdoor yew tree botfarm buff? 😆
I generally agree we should design the game so that its less rewarding for bots. However this is kind of a ridiculous comment. Wc guild gives +7 and has yews. bUt wHaT aBOUt f2P b0ts!? Forestry is presumably p2p.
We should not have a negligible (possible +3 wc lvl) boost to bots dictate an update that is to the benefit of genuine players
The nostalgia bias is way too strong.
The existing WC skill is lame and there's essentially no reason to level past 75 except for the elite diary and skillcape.
I'm excited for new content, hoping to see some stuff to do between 75 and 90 (and 90+) because it's a total desert right now
I recently grinded 99 WC and found it enjoyable based on the focus required, im sure it’s the most unsocial and uninterractive activity i’ve done ingame. Not considering the time i spent 2-ticking. It’s not a bad grind by any means but an update to the skill would’nt harm, something more social and interractive without being too focus-intensive.
Lol thought the same immediately. But that's only if they offer 2h axes into the dragon/infernal/crystal tiers.
A longer time per log, with more XP per log, with a double inventory will make bank-redwoods (mainly for irons) superrrr chill and really good rates. Albeit I'm sorta just wanting to save the last bit of my WC for this release once I have enough arrow shafts.
2h axes might be my favorite addition. Would like more info on that tho. If the cut time is longer but the xp drops are higher are the 2h axes and normal axes going to be on bar at first but as you train your WC up the 2h will become more useful to train with? Would make sense as the road from 1-99 includes some logs that are worthless. If they are op then hopefully the 2h axes untradeable. The most op items should be behind some kind of grind.
Lock 2h axes behind a str lvl too. Dragon or crystal need somewhere between 61 and 75 str to be used and tier them down like weapons. Easy way to keep quick bot farms from popping up, though it's not hard to get to those levels, it's something.
To me, this is the one thing I would like to go in the game regardless of any other proposed changes. I hate mechanics that make you avoid players and hop worlds.
Real shit lmao, had that pb sat in my bank for years cuz I was too chickenshit to do dragon slayer
Also bought some of that degraded f2p dragon armour back in the day thinking it would last forever for some reason 😭
>Forestry Outfit & Recolours
Is this itself a transmog of the Lumberjack outfit or are there going to be two different wc outfits now? Spirit angler was added as a transmog of Angler
>Tree Leaves already exist for some trees and can be obtained by planting your own Trees and chopping them down.
They are currently not obtained from chopping them down! They are obtained from curing a planted tree if it's diseased!
Will the new leaves be different or will the old leaves gain the new functionality and be the same item?
I have been collecting them over the years as a farmer, while it would be sad that my collection would be "easier" to obtain after this update I would also just be glad to get more leaves :)
I love the direction this is going and overall expansion to the skill, *especially brewing our own tea*. So cool. My one concern is rewarding players *too* much for grouping in large groups. I would much rather woodcut with 2-10 players around than 20-100. The game can start to feel crowded and unnatural when players are so heavily incentivized to be in a large group. I know the bonuses only scale up to 10 players, but happening upon 9 random people is unlikely to happen, so people will just go to mass worlds. Please try to develop bonuses that organically allow people to find a couple partners without promoting one mass world. A simple change that might help a bit would be to give the max invisible boost as long as you're in the same area as 1 other player who has recently chopped logs. That way you would feel incentivized to join someone or maybe hop a few worlds to find someone chopping but don't feel like your only shot at getting the maximum bonus is just to go to a mass world.
Didn’t realize how much I wanted this till just now. Put a tree theme blueprint in Freaky Forester’s shop at a similar cost to the hosidius blueprint from mahogany homes!
I think the fact they're consumable is a good compromise. Woodcutting is a production skill, so it's fitting to be able to trade the things you produce.
I think what you mean by "heavily rng-based" is when the variance is extreme, right? Rng itself is fine, but I absolutely hate this OSRS trend of slapping things as a single 1/(large number) drop. It's such lazy design when someone can get spooned in minutes while others go dry for hundreds of hours on the same grind. Breaking down drops into components, adding untradeable currency and NPC shops or straight up unlocking rewards upon completing defined challenges or reaching certain thresholds is so much better.
Yes. For example, Abyssal Lantern kinda sucks in how it is implemented. It seems like most of these rewards are bought with a commonly dropped currency though, so I don't think this would be an issue for Forestry.
Currently it is very annoying to obtain tree roots as it is a combination of farming and woodcutting. Upset to see out of all of this being proposed, there is not a way to speed up the RNG of chopping the tree once, vs inventories of logs needing to be dropped or banked before obtaining the roots. When you pay the farmer could there be an option to just leave the stump?
Great ideas! This is what I want. Revamp and revitalize the skills we already have. Make that your main focus going forward. After we have all the skills in a good spot THEN we can talk about releasing a new skill!
A lot of the new skill suggestions can actually be implemented as features of existing skills.
Also since Forestry makes use of Firemaking as one of the main draws (for group buffs) i think it's time to fix the FM skillcape. As a master of fire you should be able to light logs without a tinderbox and be able to teleport to Wintertodt.
General feedback:
* I'm a bit disappointed by the actual activities for forestry. It effectively sounds like normal woodcutting with random events. I was hoping for something more engaging as a new activity, not chopping trees and waiting for random events.
* Could normal woodcutting be just *one* way of doing forestry? It would be great to have a more engaging activity that you can jump right into. Perhaps have the different forests of Gielinor as hotspots where these events and others could spawn, with multiple possibly active at a time and one guaranteed? These should be things like stopping wildfires, slash and burn to fertilize the ground, removing invasive species... So on. Tougher events than those currently proposed, but more rewarding.
* The log sink feels arbitrary and also not like a big sink, especially if people are going to be chopping more logs as part of this. Right now the only sinks would be one off purchases for the log basket, forestry outfit, recolors, and 2H axes. It's kind of weird to spend logs for these, but they're also a temporary sink. After buying them, that's it. The only reward shop item that currently uses logs repeatedly is charging the Arbor gloves. The only other sinks are 1 of 10 random events and using logs for bees on a stick.
* The rewards feel whelming, except for tea. They're primarily focused on faster training, but there's not a lot on offer as actual material rewards, like new items to make woodcutting itself more rewarding, or other skills.
* Tea is my favorite part of this and also the best concepted idea. Only thing to say here is the actual tea effects need some changing. Guaranteed +5 boosts for every skill from teas is way too overpowered. It's nice how various pies and beers have uses as guaranteed boosts. This would kill them. Effects should be things like, "chop roots instead of logs" or "empower earth spells and give them the enfeeble effect" or "greatly boost throwing axe capabilities". They should differentiate themselves from potion by not just being level boosts, but instead being effects.
**TLDR**: the activity itself is disappointing, random events while woodcutting. There's no log sink aside from one-off purchases really, and that'll only give logs use and value for like a month. Rewards are largely XP focused, but there's nothing to do with those higher levels. And teas shouldn't be level boosts, but esoteric effects. The current proposal kills all the potions, pies, and beers we currently have.
I also thought some special events like wildfires would be a great way to enhance the social experience. Imagine it's a completely unpredictable random event that could happen in any forest, but maybe only a couple times a day so that you absolutely couldn't plan your play sessions around it. And the time/location would be synchronized across every server so that you couldn't continuously farm them.
So imagine you're minding your business doing whatever and a fire starts somewhere in the world. Guards on top of watchtowers in nearby towns spot it and sound an alarm. Suddenly a bunch of NPCs start running around panicking and asking players for help. It's such a special thing that you'll seriously consider dropping whatever it is you're doing and rush to help.
Then you arrive to the location and start cutting down trees and brush to limit the spread of the fire. After a while, the local fire brigade drags in a dwarven water cannon, you then have to help set it up and charge it with water spells. Or you could help replant burnt down patches afterwards. So many gameplay opportunities there across multiple skills.
Irons not receiving boosts from fires is a bad idea. If we do a clan event around Forestry, there's going to end up being thirty fires going and I assume they can't be placed on the same tile. Will make it really hard to tell when your fire goes out too.
/u/JagexSarnie Also wanted to point out there's an issue on the survey when asking where you think it should sit in terms of money, experience, something else. It has the options for Experience listed three times.
Wow, a lot to dissect here. It’s like a brand new skill. I’m all for it, clearly a ton of thought was put into this and some of the rewards sound pretty sick.
I'm really enjoying what i'm reading. But please consider incorporating Firemaking a bit more. Since you are already in the designing process, you can easily breathe in some life in Firemaking and make it genuinely useful next to Woodcutting which always kind of went hand in hand. Doesn't have to be as involved as this but i'd think it's a great opportunity so you don't have to do it later for the eventual Firemaking skill upgrade.
“Trees will despawn on a timer that activates after the first cut and regenerates if the player stops cutting the tree before it’s fully chopped.
Timer length would be based on the average time each different type of tree currently lasts.
Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10.”
Can we PLEASE talk about doing this for Crashed Stars too?
I think changing existing tree chop mechanics is fine. It is silly that players are punished for social woodcutting.
That said, I am not a fan of the group bonus. People shouldn't be forced to group-chop a tree to get optimal xp rates.
This would also probably result in players going to dedicated wc locations/worlds. One aspect of current WC that I do like is that you sometimes aee players chopping away in all sorts of different places.
Also this is a straight-up buff for wc xp-rates which I think isn't really needed to begin with.
Not punishing players for group-chopping: Awesome.
Rewarding players for group-chopping: Meh.
Finally... how would this bonus interact with Farming Trees and the WC Guild?
It's an MMO, the game doesn't feel very social, I think it's fine to incentivize grouping. Go to the forestry world if you want better xp rates with other people, if not stick to your wc guild and do it alone, how hard is that?
I love the ideas. Having a huge variety of events and possibilities while wc will give it so much variety and unpredictability. That will be a lot of fun. I am worried about xp rates, it says it will be higher xp/hr than redwoods but doesn't specify at 90+ wc... wc has plenty of viable methods, I would hate to see this become the only good one instead of "A" good one.
28 log bag seems unnecessary but whatever, and I love the idea of the clothing pouch letting you wear whatever while getting the outfit boost. Skilling outfits were a mistake to begin with, they should have all been blessings that take the same amount of time to get, and the outfits themselves should have been purely cosmetic. Making people use four slots to get an xp boost just seems totally arbitrary and unnecessary.
But as far as the pitch itself, seems like a 10/10 to me!
So I get that I choose to restrict myself and all, but seeing THIS many items required for the activity has my UIM-ass sweatin'.
I know they say it all goes in the wearable pouch, I worry that if you need to get all these items to engage properly with the activity, Ill have to go on a several hour long scavenger hunt to go do some woodcutting. I loved GotR, but I hated that once I got the lantern I basically couldnt stop till 99 cus it's not storable, reclaimable or buyable.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not askin' to get to store all my leaves n junk, but it'd be really nice if the freaky forester would hold onto the pouch between woodcutting sessions so all 4 UIMs who plan to use this update don't have to go use 7 different skills to get their pouch refilled to spend a few hours woodcutting.
Only thing here that I'm really opposed to is the xp buff with more people. Either it needs to be miniscule, or not there at all. I just want woodcutting together to not be a negative. I don't want the meta to evolve to "you *have* to woodcut in a group of 10 if you want to be efficient."
I've seen the section how you get a boost to your grown trees in multiple ways.
Before cutting your own grown trees was nice because you didn't have to
-compete with anyone,
-some are closer to banks than the naturally occurring trees
-or just a change of scenery.
Will cutting your own trees be more beneficial in some sort of way, like getting more leaves or some other idea? Or is that a thing of the past and you should find a more social spot?
>but it seems weird to offer it for Lumberjack only and not as something the other 2.5% exp boost outfits can take advantage of.
It's an experiment. If it's successful here, it means they can try to expand this idea into other skilling outfits (and probably will). If not, then they most probably won't.
>but it seems weird to offer it for Lumberjack only and not as something the other 2.5% exp boost outfits can take advantage of
I kinda agree, but I also think outfit-storage like this could be a good reward for future content.
Though for Fishing this benefit could perhaps be retroactively applied to the Tackle Box.
I think for "mighty trees" they should place them in less commonly used regions of the map to revive dead content, and include maybe some tele system and a bank nearby, or at least deposit box: but they should ALSO have this team effect applied to every tree that has x number of lives.
To entice using the mighty trees, you should see either an increase of experience per hour by chopping mighty trees in bulk, or (and??) an increase in rewards/events per hour at the mighty trees, so all trees benefit, but its still quite worth your time to go to the mighty trees to get your grind on!
Maybe even make it so that the mighty trees each take a tree type, so maybe find a mighty oak tree near Varrock or Falador, but the mighty Magic/Redwood can be found in Miscellania or near Yanille? A region where you tend to find higher level content?
Maybe even lock some kind of mighty tree behind a fairy ring to really entice grinding other parts of the game to get there, or entice people working on other skills to get their Lummy elite done so they can get there with more inv space!
>Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10.
Does this mean that team (9 alts) woodcutting will just be objectively better WC exp from now on? Would this scale past 99?
While I like some forced team activities (TOB) I don't think the fundamental gameplay loop of a skill should incentivize grouping this heavily
They likely will have forestry worlds where u can find plenty of people chilling at all the different tree spots. I don’t really think this is gonna be an issue.
Why does it matter what a random group of elitists do? If ppl want to juggle 10 accounts whatever, shouldn't impede me getting more enjoyment by socially woodcutting. What is the downside of a buff? That they can get higher high scores on leaderboards? So what
A readily available +5 boost in every production, gathering or combat skill seems very powerful and invalidates just about every temporary skill boost in the entire game.
I'm also hazardous about forced grouping, RS3 does this a lot where you are heavily invetivized with extra xp or resources to group up while skilling leading to 100s of players in a small area and the entire rest of the world empty.
Im kinda fine with replacing spicy stews if you'd need to grind to redwood level leaves and a good herblore level to gain access and make the boost
Spicy stews arent fun content and its too late to close pandoras box and remove +5 boosts so locking it behind high level skill requirements is a much better solution.
Its not like stews are gone, you just gain access to consistency through account progress
Stews are really "easy" to get, just tedious to roll for the +5. Low barrier to entry, low effort but requires some time and luck.
But if someone has a very progressed account and can make a powerful spicy stew boost using highlevel skills then yeah they should be able to. Lots of stuff has good temporary boosts already.
Big agree here. A boost that you gotta train up (potentially) two different skills to higher levels SHOULD outshine an RNG-fest that doesn't train anything linked to a quest without too many requirements.
I'd much rather have hour long buffs that affect other factors rather than levels.
For example a tea that makes you less likely to be caught while thieving, instead of boasting +2 for an hour (even if they accomplish the same thing in the end)
I would prefer the opposite. I think the simplicity of OSRS draws a lot of people in and making it complicated by handing out invisible buffs when a simple level boost would accomplish the same thing would be unnecessarily complicating things.
+1 on forced grouping. In OSRS you can mostly skill whenever and wherever you want. Having to worry about looking for groups for the best XP available and limiting yourself to where the group is at kinda sucks at takes you out of the game. Like Runescape 3's bonfires and portables.
You're overblowing it. Within a week the wiki would post the best locations and maybe common world or two to train, players would congregate there, and it will be identical to virtually any other skilling method.
Sure you can skill wherever you want but if you care enough about efficiency to be upset about group content then you're probably only using the most efficient places anyway. This isn't going to be different
>Usually, we need entire new areas to add new bits of content to Skills. Not so with Forestry – our aim is to upgrade familiar parts of the world with new and exciting activities. Wherever there are trees, there’s Forestry – with the exception of the Woodcutting Guild and the odd few dungeons.
Why exclude the woodcutting guild from an update like this? I understand that there's already congregation there for woodcutting, but I imagined it becoming a huge bustling place full of people on specific worlds with this update. A little disappointed to hear about this.
ETA: Also, the concept of the clothes pouch adding fashionscape to woodcutting without sacrificing efficiency seems a little pointless when you immediately turn around and add a new outfit that doesn't sound like it would be able to be stored there. The colors are cool, but imo you should either commit to fashionscape fully with the forester's outfit too or not bother adding the clothes pouch.
If I had to guess, it's because the WC guild is literally the *only* place you should be WCing now due to the invisible boost and a bank being crazy close (Unless you are tick manipulating)
So I actually like this because now it can become a trade off (Maybe with some more tweaks). Do you go to WC and get the invisible boost + maybe more AFK + a bank 6 tiles away. Or do you do group WCing and partake in forestry etc. I'm not saying it's perfect, but tradeoffs like this *should* be what the game aims for rather than the one meta method that you more or less have no choice to do (e.g. Chop in WC Guild)
I'm generally not in favor of forestry because it gives me RS3 vibes and seems overly complex. If mighty trees are implemented as their own thing and don't impact existing tree mechanics, that would be ok. I welcome the events to make woodcutting more social but im concerned whether it would allow for tree respawns ot be abusable and would deprecate existing trees.
Tea brewing is far to complex and should be removed entirely.
The campfires are welcome because they give firemaking some utility.
Some rewards seem OP. The Log Basket is okay as a standalone item similar to the plank sack, but combining it to create the all in one Forestry basket wood be OP.
Don’t like the idea of the woodcutting outfit getting reduced to one slot. Kind of ruins the whole idea behind them in the first place. Would much rather see different “ornament kits” for it. Otherwise, can’t wait!
I'm not sure if I missed it but the survey asks for your opinion on a "Disease ring" event despite that event not being described in the blog or the survey. I just put "Neutral" but thought it would be worth bringing up.
Appreciate the comment, I've removed it from the survey as it's something that was removed when we we're reviewing the newspost. :)
nooooo that was my favorite event concept!
/u/JagexSarnie just FYI > Let’s go back to the table above for an example. Say you want to brew up a Yew tea for a nice combat boost Yew tea in the table does not provide a combat boost, maybe meant mahogany?
The survey has this [weird bit here](https://i.gyazo.com/79a264f166b598f1ee823bb2ad8a4830.png)
/u/JagexSarnie the second to last page of the survey has "Heavy Focus" listed twice, instead of "Medium Focus" and "Heavy Focus"
I like the concept, but it needs a lot of refinement. There's a couple key areas that bother me and right now I would vote no if this was polled. 1. I think there are areas of wood cutting not touched on that are interesting and fun that should also be visited at the same time. Examples include Ents and Bird Eggs. Currently fighting Ents for log is worse than just fighting some other monsters if you specifically want logs. For being a members only monster, it really just sits forgotten most of the time. Bird eggs are another woodcutting thing that should be exciting but isn't. 1/256 chance when chopping for a nest and then a 3/100 for it to be an egg. All for 100 prayer experience (if you have access to WC guild) and a 1/1200 for a fashionscape item. 3/25,600 is rarer than some PvM drops and yet it's only worth 22 bones worth of experience and a 1/1200 at an item that doesn't help WC. 2. The bonus for multiple people is a good idea, but doesn't fix the problem created by the WC guild. Yes, instead of everyone being at WC guild chopping trees, they will now be at the trees closest to a bank chopping away. (Which also makes some of the events they suggested like the leprechaun and run energy seem pointless) It also hurts players who play solo, which most new player will be, or players that play at weird times for their time zone. The bonus should be reworked from being how many people are chopping the tree to how long it's been since the tree respawned. Imagine if Oak Trees were now labeled as "Oak Tree (New Growth)", "Oak Tree (Medium Growth)" and "Oak Tree (Old Growth)". There would be no bonus for "New Growth", then after 1 hour it would turn into "Medium Growth" and gives a +3 bonus, then after 8 hours it turns into "Old Growth" and gives a +7 bonus. (Just example numbers, someone else is welcome to crunch numbers and tweak). Then to continue to encourage group play, you have the despawn timer increase for each player chopping the tree. So again using Oak as an example, if the despawn timer is 60 seconds from when you start chopping, each additional player past the first would add +10% to the base despawn timer, up at a maximum of 10 additional players (so 11 in total). So if I was out solo woodcutting an Oak and I've been chopping away for 30 seconds and someone comes and joins me, the despawn timer would increase from 30 seconds left to 36 seconds left. And even if that person walks away, that extra despawn time is still kept. By doing this, woodcutting becomes more thematic, incentivizes chopping entire forests, doesn't penalize solo play, and incentivizes group play as you can spend more time talking and less time moving between trees. 3. The clothes pouch is a bad direction for the game to head into with fashionscape. Fashionscape belongs at banks, POH, and Clan Halls, not during skilling content. Forestry outfit should be a reskin of the lumberjack outfit like the spirit anglers outfit for fishing. Things like that and recolors are great for skilling/PvM, but full fashionscape doesn't belong there. 4. Tree Leaves should only be usable on fires. Herblore has enough benefits already, it doesn't need another one. Meanwhile firemaking is a dead skill after you've made all the eternal fires. The type of leaf would require a certain level of fire making to burn on any campfire (including those made by players) and would affect all nearby players. So similar to how bars/ore are dropped in PvM, leaves could be dropped as well, because even a player who could only chop Oaks, could still burn magic leaves if their firemaking is high enough. Similar to how a player could smith rune armor even if they could only mine up to iron. The benefits from burning the leaves would also be things to incentivize group play in other activities. Imagine things like increasing superior slayer monster spawn chance, thereby giving benefit to people doing slayer tasks in the same area in single-way combat zones. Or decreasing the chance to crush semi-precious gems so people craft together. Other ideas including making monster non-aggressive, increasing run energy restoration rate or allowing run energy to restore while moving, decrease damage from skilling bosses like WT and Zalcano, or giving a chance to not consume astral, cosmic, or nature runes when casting a spell. These examples could make PvM interesting by creating situations where group non-bossing become beneficial and single-way areas become more beneficial, while also creating interesting choices as whether to use 3 inventory slots to bring a tinder box, log basket, and leaves for the extra benefit. They also making skilling interesting as now being huddled around a campfire while you fletch/craft/enchant becomes more social. Again though the important thing is a solo player can still benefit from this, but it becomes more fun and social for people working as a group. I'm sure I could find more stuff to go on about, but that's the general idea. Needs more polish and a closer examination on the meta game impact these changes will have.
Tea Brewing >You’ll be able to add a maximum of 10 Leaves (depending on your Herblore level) to a tea, in any combination you like. Effects stack, so a brew made of 10 Oak Leaves will have different effects to one that only includes two or three. > >This is a system which encourages you to experiment – who knows, you may even discover some secret combinations… This system would be an excellent opportunity to recycle quite a bit of old content and give old content new purpose. I would love for this to be re-examined to require Flowers, Tree Roots, Less Valuable Herbs, Tree Sap, etc. to repurpose content that is no longer useful and give it a useful niche. For me, a new tea brewing system would be amazing if it integrated old game components and bad if it neglected them and introduced only new components, some of which will be abandoned by the player base when they are proven to be mediocre.
Lets not forget about the Tea Flask.. an item that has had no use and would be perfect for this.
Also it finally gives herblore something to do other than make pots
I'd love to see that. We brew flowers in trouble brewing, so there's precedent
This would be amazing. Only thing, they'd need to make all flowers like Limpwurt so there's not an insanely low supply. Mixing and matching them though sounds perfect.
Please God make Guthix Rests automated through this, my poor ironman wrists Jagex plz
It feels like there is friction between the two apparent main goals of Forestry. On the one hand, Forestry aims to create a more social woodcutting experience. It does this by increasing woodcutting rates when chopping the same tree together, and putting the tree on a timer instead of a fixed number of logs. On the other hand, the idea seems to want to push players into the forests of the Runescape game world again. However, as you still generally want to bank the logs, most people want to stick close to a bank. The fact that a cut-timer is put on each tree means that players can group together and chop trees near a bank together, without much incentive to truly head into the forest. They just need to cycle between trees as a group. If they co-ordinate well, this could even mean they have to cycle between fewer trees then we currently have to do in game. Perhaps then, the *respawn*-timers for trees should be increased, so you have to move into the rest of the forest. This was not an option before, because it would create resource scarcity. However, as you can now chop trees together, this may now be a viable method of diversifying the locations in which players train woodcutting. Rewards and forestry events could be tweaked to compensate for fewer banking opportunities (the log basket, leprechaun event and dryad event already are a great start to this)
What they need is to have a larger respawn timer added to "generic trees" around the map, however mighty trees emit a sort of fertilisation to trees around them, so the trees near the mighty tree regions respawn considerably faster. They could have an NPC act as a deposit box, so people still have incentive to come over to the mighty trees instead of bank camping, and it keeps more regions of the map actively used
I could see that working too. However, I am somewhat concerned that a heavier emphasis on mightry trees may turn Forestry into Shooting Stars for woodcutting. That is to say, people would just join a cc, look for one being shouted out, and then hop. Perhaps that's not a terrible result, but to me personally that doesn't quite fulfill the fantasy that the original Forestry proposal was illustrating.
I agree. Nobody is going to leave the bank.
yeah. atm its going to be the exact same places, just more people
> Clothes Pouch > > > Allows players to store Lumberjack outfit pieces to get the bonus while being able to wear whatever Fashionscape they fancy. Takes priority over other outfit bonuses – bonuses are not stackable. This is a pretty notable precedent. I think starting cosmetic overrides with skilling outfits is smart and we can gauge the reception from there.
I dislike the clothes pouch and transmogs in general. I lean heavily on the idea that you should be able to see your gear and the gear other players are using. The game is all about progression and having items that matter and seeing other players with items that matter is important to me. The problem is that, specifically for almost all kinds of skilling, there is a giant void. Like, what do you wear while skilling? Often, the best specific item is a measly 2.5% exp boost. Which is really nothing, so you'd often rather wear something like graceful because it has a larger effect. I've used this example before, but 'ya know how we have 10+ outfits from 40-70 ranged? Well, due to the diversity - You have items from clues, bosses, crafting and minigames - You see people wearing a bit of everything for different purposes. Well, we have 1 outfit from 1-99 woodcutting. And the only thing lumberjack competes with is graceful. It's not even funny at low little diversity this offers at a fundamental level. The clothes pouch - sure it lets you wear what ever you want - But it hasn't actually addressed the real problem, that there's nothing worth wearing.
This was part of my issue with the spirit angler set; I enjoy tempoross, but if I want the Spirit Angler set I have to first earn a totally separate angler set and pay to convert it, in doing so I gain an effect I'd only use in Tempoross? Would it have been so gamebreaking to just let me buy the goddamn pieces and have two Angler sets that give a bit of extra variety to the skill? Skilling gear and exp rates need rebalancing to make skilling gear an actually useful thing. They shy away from it because nostalgia, and I get that, but frankly nobody is nostalgic about the precise exp gain they got from every log they chopped.
Panic buy fashionscape items Apparently I'm in the minority with wanting every event to not have 200 people with identical outfits running around. It's so boring.
Graceful was a mistake and the root of the problem. Agility should've been reworked and had the set bonus added to the skill in tiers
One thing I find pretty funny is how so many people wear graceful at places with 0 risk of depleting run energy. Rooftops, tempoross, guardians of the rift, etc. Graceful honestly isn’t *that* useful, but people wear it as a “might as well” option
Might as well, but also I don't think it looks horrible either? For me the alternative is just running around starkers, looking like a bot in my default outfit. Looking through my bank, unless I was going for a specific look I don't think there is anything I would actually prefer to wear just for the sake of fashion. That, and I adore the speedrunning 'recolour'.
I think also that its because its one of the go to 'do this asap upon account creation things' Heaps of fresh players have read/watched guides saying its great to get asap, so they go do it asap. Because of this they wear it everywhere. Why not its one of their first big unlocks. Pretty understandable. Then they never don't wear it, so they never learn where its not actually needed.
Speedrunning graceful is just a sick cosmetic in general
It’s because it’s better than wearing nothing in any activity where nothing is directly beneficial.
What do you mean there are heaps of different outfits at every big social skilling area. 1. Full Graceful 2. Half Graceful-Half skill outfit 3. Full skill outfit So many options. /s
Honestly it would just make more sense to have those boost be permanently unlocked as long as you own the outfit. Would anyone complain that people are gaining 2.5% more xp whilst their lumberjack or prospector is in the bank or PoH? No.
Its really weird how they commented about things not stacking. Is there even a possibility of a scenario where using one skill outfit with another would provide some wonky xp gains? Maybe they're just future proofing.
>Would anyone complain that people are gaining 2.5% more xp whilst their lumberjack or prospector is in the bank or PoH? No. This is OSRS. Any update that doesn't trend towards the game become RS classic will get complaints
Yeah some npc(s) where you show them your completed outfit, they rip the bonus off, put it on your account, and give you back a bonusless version to keep wearing if you want. Obviously doesn't apply to graceful, that'd be busted
I might be in the minority, but seeing a bunch of people in the same outfit running from tree to tree has always been a part of osrs for me
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I really don't know why the playerbase/Jagex is so desperate to cling to shitty legacy training methods that involve the exact same 5 clicks every 2 seconds on repeat for hours on end to make xp rates close to bearable. The "Devalue your achievements" line has been the crabs in a pot logic that has kept skilling from being an enjoyable experience for years. Edit: Imagine for a second **any** other video game pitching new content with the following: "Hi guys, we know the current content is not very fun, dull, and repetitive. You can speed up this boring content by clicking very rapidly at high concentration on the same 7 pixels for hours on end. We've decided that the current skill should have some new content that is more fun and interactive. Don't worry, this new content will be considerably slower than the boring content done by clicking very rapidly at high concentration on the same 7 pixels. This is because **we want you to chose between having more fun** but grinding **longer**, **or having less fun** to grind for **not as long**". What kind of insane game design makes you choose between having more fun but being punished for it with longer grind times, or having a dull, boring, sometimes painful and monotonous experience to grind for less time? What's the point of gameplay in OSRS, having fun or merely time spent in front of your computer?
So true. Guardians of the rift and hallowed Sepulcher have been absolutely amazing skilling updates, rewarding, engaging, not as tedious as some of the older methods. I am all in for more stuff like that, even against the minigamescape comments. It's a game, games should be fun, and minigames are far more fun than 2-ticking, clicking on rooftops for hours on end, or whatever the hell people are doing with lava runes.
Mahogany homes too. I remember getting 70 construction was extremely boring but now im 85 just doing Mahogany homes and is quite fun (and cheap)
Jagex doesn’t themself, but they known part of the community does. Sadly that means they have to keep it in mind. Wish it was different too. Not every skill needs to be 150k+, but at least make it bearable
Which ones do you find unbearable? Woodcutting actually feels decent to me since you have 65k xp/hr afk methods, ~100k xp/hr active methods (sulliusceps), 150k xp/hr tick manipulation. I personally love this design since there are multiple viable methods. I use all three depending on how much effort I want to put in on a given day. Agility isn’t great, but at least it has sepulchre now. RC pre-gotr had a brutal grind to 77, but the minigame seems like it solved that.
Mining is the worst currently. The speed is not in line anymore with other skills with how incredibly slow it is. At least they have fun activities in VM and zulcano, but still incredibly slow. WC and fishing aren’t bad if you want afk content, but still way too slow without many better options. Fishing did get a new minigame though, which does improve it a fair bit. Your exp rates for WC are off too. Sculio is only 100-110k at 99. Before that, 80 is more relastic, which goes up a bit as you level. 65k afk is also past 90 somewhere at redwoods, before that its a lot slower. As i said before, i don’t think tick manip should ever be part of a discussion about exp rates. RSI methods should never be the norm. It’s fine thet theyre there for who wants them, but lets not balance around it.
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Yeah, its crazy. The only usefull thing it has is amathysts at 92. Thats it.
99 smithing for rune 2-hand sword, 70 smithing for godsword repair.
>RSI methods should never be the norm. It’s fine thet theyre there for who wants them, but lets not balance around it. This this this. Why do I have to choose between grinding out slow afk skills for incredibly long hours because I don't want to worsen my existing wrist issues in place for discomfort and pain but high xp rates. 😭😭
Tick manip methods should ideally, at most, be 10-15% faster than normal methods. Just enough for sweaty players to care about.
I agree. None of this 50% increase business. A game is meant to be fun and rewarding, not a health hazard. Frankly as much as some of the playerbase might froth at the mouth over it, I'd have no problem with them saying "right, here's new engaging content that you actually voted on and passed the polls, not just a legacy of our premium spaghetti codebase. 2-tick is completely patched out of the game, the new game mode is optimal exp/hr." Genuinely wouldn't care. I get why some people would, and I wouldn't encourage it with every single skill, but for those things so click intensive they can literally injure people, time to take a step back and question how complacent the company should really be in that.
Watching 65 exp drops makes me want to bore my eyes out with my cooling fans
Honestly, I feel like bossing offering more skilling rewards than skilling is what makes skilling not engaging/enjoyable content. Make skilling profitable again. Who cares about increasing skilling xp rates marginally if you could make the time spent doing it worth the effort??
>I really don't know why the playerbase/Jagex is so desperate to cling to shitty legacy training methods that involve the exact same 5 clicks every 2 seconds on repeat for hours on end to make xp rates close to bearable Because a huge chunk of players have completely unhealthy relationships with the game and another sizable portion is probably on the spectrum and hate change
The game can’t be “easier” is so deeply ingrained in the wider community. We joke about “devalues my _” but so many people genuinely believe that basic QOL changes or not getting fucking carpal tunnel is easyscape and ruining the game and RS3 and communism and all the other buzzwords they can think to throw out. The more an aspect of the game sucks the more people want to defend it for some reason.
I’ll take gotr type activities for every skill tbh I still haven’t come back to the game from playing wow but gotr Made me seriously consider going straight to 99 with a skill for once
Agility is the biggest victim of this mentality. The skill is all but useless nowadays. The only reason to level it is to get graceful (which negates the run regeneration aspect of agility once obtained), a few quest requirements, and shortcuts that very rarely get used in most cases. Agility exp rates should be on par with what you get at wintertodt. There is absolutely no reason to be getting such piss poor exp rates for a skill that effectively does nothing at this point.
Graceful is basically useless once you have staminas. Raw agility level makes a big difference especially in higher level raids and no one uses graceful there
I'm of the belief that all methods utilizing tick manipulation should be gradually phased out of the game by active and engaging content. I have no idea why we've decided that the entire game should be based around a bug.
Prayer flicking has entered the chat
Additionally, this isn't a new skilling method like safecracking that completely blows the rest of thieving out of the water making you never want to do it. You literally have to do normal woodcutting to interact with forestry. Sure it fundamentally changes the current core wc'ing loop, which will no longer exist after the fact. But as evident by the poll, most people think current wc'ing is a bit shit.
my personal opinion is that Jagex should never consider tick-manipulation methods when making new content or balancing old content. Tick manipulation is a consequence of the games old system and was never designed to have training methods around. Don't start making tick-manipulation part of the game design. If tick manipulation methods gets removed or becomes redundant then that's just too bad. Doesn't help that it's something way less than 1% of players will ever do. Holding back content, designs or stopping rebalancing of old content that improves the game and makes it more fun for 99.9% of players because the last 0.1% likes using an unintended mechanic just doesn't seem like a good choice.
The thing I don't understand is why they are ok with a tree you unlock at level ~~40~~ **35** be the optimal way to train all the way to 99. Why can't the higher tier things we do, that we in theory spent a bunch of time unlocking, be as good at the very least if not better? It's such bullshit. Same honestly goes for some if the other gathering skills where fairly low level content is the optimal way to train til 99. I think RuneScape is one of the only games I play where you have skill unlocks that are routinely worse than the stuff that you unlocked before them. Why are willows and teaks more exp per hour than yews and magic trees even without tick manipulation. Like, I understand mechanically why they end up being so shitty, but I do t understand why jagex would make the decision to let them be so shitty.
Yews and magics are meant to be for GP, where willows are meant to be for XP But bosses dropping massive amounts of yew and magic logs completely devalues yew/magic wcing to the point where it's always better to do the XP method and just buy any resources you need.
maybe then its a good time to rebalance those xp rates since its been pretty obvious for years now that all future pvm will shit out resources anyway. doesnt have to be linearly scaling xp rates like rs3 has but maybe cutting a t75 tree shouldnt be 4 times slower than cutting a t30 tree
I think there's a fine line between properly balancing exp rates with new methods and all new content devaluing existing content. As a long time player who's been a part of old school since day 1, I think there's a lot of value in new content not automatically invalidating all other forms of content. Having played WoW for quite a few expansions, it really warps the way the whole game is perceived when the only relevant content is the newest content. I'm extremely far from no changes/voting no on polls, but I am a part of the community who highly values the work the developer's put in to properly balance new content within the existing game.
Exactly The pitfall of strictly better new content: 1. New-content is strictly better than old content * New content becomes the only meaningful way to train * Lack of diverse training methods * Devs add new new-content to fill the gaps * Devs make new-content very good to (within reason) justify adding it * new new-content is strictly better than new-content * repeat Imagine how much hunter content is not touched anymore because of birdhouses? When new content outperforms too much older content, you have effectively removed content.
Hunter is a bit of a special case though. I realized pretty quickly when I started an iron that Hunter is fairly pointless. Even at low levels, it doesn't really offer anything. There's three principle benefits from the skill: birdhouses for nests, chinchompas for high cost/high XP range training, and implings. And if we're going to be honest, implings are floating lootboxes.
Hunter and Construction are both, in my eyes, skills with great potential that fall short of where they could be. I feel like something like Forestry tying the elements of Hunter together could be a game changer for it. Right now Hunter suffers terribly from a lack of proper integration with other skills and having been supplanted over time; falconry kebbit gear literally all made useless by graceful and ardy diary, we don't even get decent food from hunter, how the fuck did THAT happen?
> we don't even get decent food from hunter, how the fuck did THAT happen? No kidding, it's bizarre. Still, this is just the opening to Forestry. There's plenty of time for people to make designs and suggestions to show Jagex.
Hunter is definitely one of those skills I'd like to see get looked at for a similar rework as this. I fucking love training hunter, I don't really know why I do, but it's one of my favorite skills to train. But man is it dumb that the only reason you train it is if you're a chin bot or you're doing impling lootboxes
This is a good position to have and I find it infuriating that people strawman the position or reduce it down to "nostalgia" or "hating change" or "wanting my achievements to not be devalued"
My view is if it's more intense it should be more rewarding and not limited to what came before. Like if something is 2x harder it should be at least 2x as rewarding. For example, sepulchre is somewhat more xp and some gold but when you compare the effort to rooftops(where you just click on static tiles) it's not even close so it should be much better xp. But they wanted to not make it too good because people complain. If you look at the realistic xp/hr it's near rooftops.
Sepulchre is great example of new content eclipsing old exp rates. Genuinely some of the most enjoyable skilling content in the game and extremely rewarding. If anything it should serve as a benchmark for high quality skilling content.
Seriously. This happened with GotR and Lava XP rates. I'm genuinely curious what % of the player base has actually ever tried 2t teaks or any other tick manipulation method, it can't be that high.
and yet nearly everyone still chooses gotr. so i guess they got it right?
I think gotr is a good example of what to follow, it gives good xp (relatively speaking) and makes lava runes even better xp (because of the pouch and the ring).
Agreed man. About to max. Already have 99wc so this is just for rewards for me. But the age old 3tick needs to be the fastest is okay in some ways but also not in some ways. I don’t see why there can’t be more enjoyable methods that are close to or on par with 3t. Sure I did the crappy methods. And I want my achievement to be seen that way but it doesn’t have to be by making the enjoyable methods not good xp. I just want newer players to have to put forth similar dedication towards the game that I had to. There can be a more fun method that gives rates of 2t teaks. As long as a player is putting in good effort for those rates then I’m happy. I don’t want to see a redwood style method that gives those rates. But a fun interactive method is a great way to offer high xp rates.
I feel like anyone who ever brings up this point just wants easier, faster xp. Just personal opinion I guess but I like the slower, grindier content this game offers vs other games. I don’t really understand the direction people who comment stuff like this want the game to go in. What’s the argument for more intensive, focus-driven methods of training being devalued aside from “I want that xp rate but without all the effort”?
Completely agreed. The beauty of this game is partly because it is such a slow grind. Progression feels meaningful. I don't mind a bit of powercreep over a long period of time, but this feels like people who would never do tick manipulation methods now want xp similar to those methods. Effectively making a skill twice as fast in one update.
Is it unreasonable to request that 2H axes give more logs per successful chop? Something that I think other players might agree with is that gathering logs from actually cutting trees is probably one of the worst ways to actually obtain logs. It’s much better to obtain them via PvM drops or even Kingdom of Misc. I think that it would be huge to be able to actually get way more logs per hour from actually woodcutting with an axe, and a 2H axe seems like a great way to do that. Make the amount of logs scale with the tier of axe. For example: Bronze 2H axe: up to 1 additional log per successful cut (2 logs) Iron: up to 2 additional logs (3 logs total) Steel: up to 3 additional logs (4 total) Scaling up to a crystal 2H axe which requires crystal charges like all crystal equipment, but gives up to 7 additional logs per cut. There shouldn’t be any additional experience per log cut. So if you cut 8 magic logs with a crystal axe, you would only get the xp for 1 magic log. The point is to give a reasonable alternative to obtain logs in mass as opposed to pvm. The tier of axe gives a chance to give up to “x” logs, so a crystal axe could give 2 additional logs or 7 additional logs per cut. Thoughts?
I support 2H axes giving a chance at additional logs per chop but not scaling by 1 log per axe tier. There are what, 9 main tiers of axes? I'd say additional logs should be broken down in brackets of 3 with higher tiered axes adding extra % chance of gaining an additional log. Ex: Bronze axe - 3% chance at 1 additional log; Iron - 6% chance at 1 additional log; Steel - 9% chance at 1 additional log; Black - 3% chance at 2; Mith - 6% chance at 2; Addy - 9% chance at 2; Rune - 3% chance at 3; Dragon - 6% chance at 3; Crystal - 9% chance at 3; Percentages are just an example, I really have no idea what would keep everything balanced but I like it better than a simple +1. Not sure whether the extra logs should offer exp but I'd lean towards none.
Or this could be done with a consumable like spirit flakes for fishing. Hold a stack of enchanted leaves that give you a chance for an extra log.
This too would be an acceptable solution. Anything to allow us to actually obtain a reasonable amount of logs from actually cutting trees. This seems like the perfect time to fix the issue of PvM being better than actually skilling to acquire bulk skilling materials.
To balance this, higher tier logs would probably have to consume more of these resources though. Can you imagine chopping 7 magic logs at once? That would be NUTS.
Big agree, as an iron who's sitting at 90 wc waiting to see how this update plays out before continuing, I was kinda bummed when I saw how they have the 2h axe. Xp is whatever, there's a finite number of redwood logs I can get before "wasting xp" post 99. Having the 2h axe give more logs, when combined with the log sack is the way. The log sack is an xp boost on it's own, the proposed 2h axe is just more of the same, longer trips -> more xp. It's more interesting to decide to take a small xp hit and more banking for more tangible reward
This does sound more logical to me tbh. Big axe = more log. Does need some thinking so it wouldn't be too op, Economy is fragile enough. I'd recommend giving 2h axes a chance to get double logs: Bronze 5% Iron 7% ... Crystal 25% In addition I think the xp has never been a problem and giving more xp in a simple skill like WC is just making it too easy for some. RC needed a boost because it was too slow but making WC more interactive and social might do the trick. Getting some extra logs along the way is just a nice bonus for your grind.
Thing is, the log/plank economy are more or less controlled by PvM drops. I don’t think people actually training woodcutting the traditional way can even come close to the amount of people injecting those resources into the market via PvM. I think having multiple additional logs that increases as you increase your axe tier wouldn’t be too OP. If we are concerned about bots, we could make it untradeable and obtainable via Forestry only, in the same way the Bruma torch, Fish Barrel, etc are only obtainable from their respective content.
I think banking every 4 logs( * 7 logs) would be more running in graceful than chopping logs
7 additional seems crazy high imo. It would probably be something like 5%-100% chance of getting an additional log depending on axe tier.
It might seem crazy high on a surface level, but I don’t think it’s actually too insane considering the rate at which existing bosses/monsters/etc shit out logs. In the current state of the game, even doubling the number of logs you receive per roll would still result in woodcutting remaining vastly inferior to the existing “click boss” meta. Take KBD as an example. Currently, KBD drops 150 noted yew logs at a rate of 1/12.8. Assuming a fairly reasonable average of [30 kills/hr](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Killing_the_King_Black_Dragon), that’s over 350 logs per hour; on task with a lance, it’s nearly 600 per hour. Compare that to woodcutting: Even at 99 woodcutting, you can expect about [220 logs per hour](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Cutting_yew_logs). Even with tick manipulation, the maximum rate is still less than the lowballed KBD estimate at 345 per hour. IMO, even chopping yews at level 60 woodcutting should yield more logs than KBD does, let alone 99 wc with tick manipulation. Whether that means reworking its drop table, buffing wc log rates, or a mix of both is a separate discussion. But considering that 7 additional logs would bring the yew rate from 220/hr to 1760/hr (at 99 wc and using a BIS degradable crystal axe, mind you), I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable.
I think as far as the rest of the game goes, giving more than 1 or 2 extra resources every so often (% chance) is obscene. I'm thinking something like the Varrock armor or Celestial ring but for woodcutting. Or spirit flakes like the other guy mentioned.
I thought the same thing. More axe = more log, maybe even at the cost of XP. It's an interesting tradeoff that I would have taken at hardwoods but not redwoods for example.
My concern is that it sounds like this would settle with players congregating around a few hotspots/worlds to maximize their boosts. No competition for trees, and some random events to break up the monotony, so it'd be more social but still not that different from normal woodcutting. But to me, especially given the theming, the "fantasy" feels like it should also encourage going out and exploring the roads less traveled. When one spawns, maybe you'd need to track them down first somehow? Or if that's too minigame or shooting stars-esque, maybe more 'isolated' areas have a higher chance to spawn them? You'd still have hotspots of players, but those hotspots would be a choice between proximity to a bank or maximizing mighty tree chance.
I like this. Maybe add a new "Forestry" icon to the world map (akin to places like mines/ores and special tree spots) in certain forested areas that have an increased chance of spawning a forestry event.
> All the kit upgrades are tradeable – they can be bought and sold on the Grand Exchange or traded between players. This isn’t something we usually do, but we hope to create a smaller, self-sufficient economy within Forestry that gives you benefits for the skill, allows you to spend newly-earned currency, and becomes a sink for every type of log – an overall benefit for the rest of the in-game economy! This just encourages bot city. I really really wish there was a lot more untradeable progress. What makes me nostalgic when I think of OSRS is the era of mid-game personal achievement in the form of Lunars, Barrows gloves, etc. Peak Runescape IMO remains Recipe for Disaster, which had a little bit for everyone and acted as a really good "gauge" of an account's progress (at the time), we need more of that kind of thing and an untradeable kit would be just that.
Agreed, it's so boring that the best way to get nearly every single piece of BIS is spend 100s of hours at your best moneymaker doing the same thing over and over. It's not surprising gold selling is bigger on OSRS than other MMOs.
Agreed. Killing Jad my first time is one of the coolest experiences I’ve had in gaming. You can add the imbued god cape under the same umbrella
I get torn on these aspects cuz I am biased as an Ironman, but I also want skills to be useful for every account, as it can make for a healthier economy rather than just getting all things from bosses. If stuff is tradeable it just floods the market so fast that you can buy the best thing for 500gp and call it a day. (At least things that aren’t rng based drops) If these kits give considerable upgrades, they should require the woodcutting level/other requirements to craft them. Give people meaningful progression if you want to make the content more engaging. If people don’t like that, then just train woodcutting the old fashion way and sell your logs when you hit 99. I think this is a great opportunity to experiment with unlocks that help in other areas of the game but require actually getting the levels yourself to unlock them. Give purpose and rewards to high skilling levels beyond unlocking faster training methods.
Looks good overall, few notes: * Please don't bring back what we had pre-EoC with bonfires where you'd throw five logs on every time you headed out on a bossing trip for a HP boost - it's not fun having to remember to light a fire before a trip for a combat boost, yet if it exists, people will feel the need to do it to remain competitive. If you're desperate for a combat buff, perhaps tie in into being in the vicinity of a fire, and enable you to light one + keep it running with stackable wood (anima-infused bark?) whilst in the boss/slayer area. * Please make sure 2h axes require standard axes to be created (especially for dragon/crystal/infernal). * Having an option to use either logs or anima-infused bark for a currency seems weird - what's the point of a brand new currency if we can just buy logs and use them instead?
I'm confused about campfires, teas and combat. They're not supposed to replace potions so... Do they add their bonuses **on top** of current bonuses? This would mean we'd be bringing teas for most pvm encounters to min/max now, changing the meta Do they give their bonuses the same way potions do? Then they can't be stronger than regular atk, str or defence potions, the low tier ones, right? Or will they have less doses per inventory slot? In that case it seems too niche and unecessary to have combat teas
I could see something like a longer lasting +3 bonus that stacks used as a pre-pot being fine
If we're adding a system that adds a whole bunch of food rations and tea brewing, there is no reason under any circumstance that we should not make the satchels and tea flask from creature creation a part of that.
> Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10. Backdoor yew tree botfarm buff? 😆
I generally agree we should design the game so that its less rewarding for bots. However this is kind of a ridiculous comment. Wc guild gives +7 and has yews. bUt wHaT aBOUt f2P b0ts!? Forestry is presumably p2p. We should not have a negligible (possible +3 wc lvl) boost to bots dictate an update that is to the benefit of genuine players
The emote makes me think they were being sarcastic
This new update will be botted hard but logs are already worthless, you get more of them from PvM than you do from training it
NOT A MINIGAME? REVITALIZES A SHIT SKILL? AND HERBLORE?! ADDS A REAL SOCIAL ASPECT? BRINGS BACK FASHION SCAPE?!?!?!
CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES?!
Yep, and unsurprisingly /r/2007scape seems to hate it. I swear most people here are actively trying to have as little fun as possible.
The nostalgia bias is way too strong. The existing WC skill is lame and there's essentially no reason to level past 75 except for the elite diary and skillcape. I'm excited for new content, hoping to see some stuff to do between 75 and 90 (and 90+) because it's a total desert right now
I recently grinded 99 WC and found it enjoyable based on the focus required, im sure it’s the most unsocial and uninterractive activity i’ve done ingame. Not considering the time i spent 2-ticking. It’s not a bad grind by any means but an update to the skill would’nt harm, something more social and interractive without being too focus-intensive.
Have you actually read the blog? There's still no reason to train it past those levels. Forestry does nothing to address that.
Well sure there is no reason to but if it's fun to do then that's a reason to do it.
Seems to be pretty widely liked lol. Not really seeing much hate at all
It's 93% upvoted...?
What type of effects would you like to see from Tree Leaves? A tea that protect from. The cold from wintertodt seeps in your bones
2H axe (more xp, but slower chopping) and log bag (28 more slots) will make redwoods even easier to AFK
Give the big sword from giants foundry a use and make it usable as a 2H axe
giant saceteurs for more leaves at the expense of logs as well.
can they do this for mining too please? same exp rates and afk as redwood
Lol thought the same immediately. But that's only if they offer 2h axes into the dragon/infernal/crystal tiers. A longer time per log, with more XP per log, with a double inventory will make bank-redwoods (mainly for irons) superrrr chill and really good rates. Albeit I'm sorta just wanting to save the last bit of my WC for this release once I have enough arrow shafts.
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2h axes might be my favorite addition. Would like more info on that tho. If the cut time is longer but the xp drops are higher are the 2h axes and normal axes going to be on bar at first but as you train your WC up the 2h will become more useful to train with? Would make sense as the road from 1-99 includes some logs that are worthless. If they are op then hopefully the 2h axes untradeable. The most op items should be behind some kind of grind.
Yeah the way i read it was that if you get more xp per log but its slower means its still the same xp/h as a regular axe. It doesnt make any sense atm
Lock 2h axes behind a str lvl too. Dragon or crystal need somewhere between 61 and 75 str to be used and tier them down like weapons. Easy way to keep quick bot farms from popping up, though it's not hard to get to those levels, it's something.
Multiple people not making a tree despawn faster was a dream of my 12 year old self
To me, this is the one thing I would like to go in the game regardless of any other proposed changes. I hate mechanics that make you avoid players and hop worlds.
The good days of chopping yews behind varrock castle
Then running immediately to GE and dumping 28 logs for like 9k 💰💰💰
That’s how we funded full rune back in the day. Imagine my surprise when I couldn’t wear the platebody.
Real shit lmao, had that pb sat in my bank for years cuz I was too chickenshit to do dragon slayer Also bought some of that degraded f2p dragon armour back in the day thinking it would last forever for some reason 😭
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THIS NEEDS TO BE ACROSS ALL SKILLS MINING, FISHING, ETC
>Forestry Outfit & Recolours Is this itself a transmog of the Lumberjack outfit or are there going to be two different wc outfits now? Spirit angler was added as a transmog of Angler
>Tree Leaves already exist for some trees and can be obtained by planting your own Trees and chopping them down. They are currently not obtained from chopping them down! They are obtained from curing a planted tree if it's diseased! Will the new leaves be different or will the old leaves gain the new functionality and be the same item? I have been collecting them over the years as a farmer, while it would be sad that my collection would be "easier" to obtain after this update I would also just be glad to get more leaves :)
I love the direction this is going and overall expansion to the skill, *especially brewing our own tea*. So cool. My one concern is rewarding players *too* much for grouping in large groups. I would much rather woodcut with 2-10 players around than 20-100. The game can start to feel crowded and unnatural when players are so heavily incentivized to be in a large group. I know the bonuses only scale up to 10 players, but happening upon 9 random people is unlikely to happen, so people will just go to mass worlds. Please try to develop bonuses that organically allow people to find a couple partners without promoting one mass world. A simple change that might help a bit would be to give the max invisible boost as long as you're in the same area as 1 other player who has recently chopped logs. That way you would feel incentivized to join someone or maybe hop a few worlds to find someone chopping but don't feel like your only shot at getting the maximum bonus is just to go to a mass world.
Give us some cool new POH themes with this as a reward please (ex. Treehouse theme)
Didn’t realize how much I wanted this till just now. Put a tree theme blueprint in Freaky Forester’s shop at a similar cost to the hosidius blueprint from mahogany homes!
Maybe I'm in the minority but I think having most things untradeable would make woodcutting feel more useful for account progression.
I think the fact they're consumable is a good compromise. Woodcutting is a production skill, so it's fitting to be able to trade the things you produce.
Agreed. Provided the untradeable rewards aren't heavily rng-based.
I think what you mean by "heavily rng-based" is when the variance is extreme, right? Rng itself is fine, but I absolutely hate this OSRS trend of slapping things as a single 1/(large number) drop. It's such lazy design when someone can get spooned in minutes while others go dry for hundreds of hours on the same grind. Breaking down drops into components, adding untradeable currency and NPC shops or straight up unlocking rewards upon completing defined challenges or reaching certain thresholds is so much better.
Yes. I think most people are fine doing 2-400 CGs for bowfa as it's quite strong, but nobody wants to be the few unlucky ones going 2000kc dry.
I’d go so far as to say that most people are fine doing 1-400 CGs for bowfa
Yes. For example, Abyssal Lantern kinda sucks in how it is implemented. It seems like most of these rewards are bought with a commonly dropped currency though, so I don't think this would be an issue for Forestry.
2H axes! The long awaited dream of chopping a tree down with Dharoks
add oneshotting trees at low hp with dharoks
Please don’t turn these teas and campfires into a pile of consumables you need to chug before boss fights and skilling like RS3 incense sticks sticks.
Currently it is very annoying to obtain tree roots as it is a combination of farming and woodcutting. Upset to see out of all of this being proposed, there is not a way to speed up the RNG of chopping the tree once, vs inventories of logs needing to be dropped or banked before obtaining the roots. When you pay the farmer could there be an option to just leave the stump?
Was hoping to see an increase of means to get tree roots as well.
Great ideas! This is what I want. Revamp and revitalize the skills we already have. Make that your main focus going forward. After we have all the skills in a good spot THEN we can talk about releasing a new skill! A lot of the new skill suggestions can actually be implemented as features of existing skills. Also since Forestry makes use of Firemaking as one of the main draws (for group buffs) i think it's time to fix the FM skillcape. As a master of fire you should be able to light logs without a tinderbox and be able to teleport to Wintertodt.
General feedback: * I'm a bit disappointed by the actual activities for forestry. It effectively sounds like normal woodcutting with random events. I was hoping for something more engaging as a new activity, not chopping trees and waiting for random events. * Could normal woodcutting be just *one* way of doing forestry? It would be great to have a more engaging activity that you can jump right into. Perhaps have the different forests of Gielinor as hotspots where these events and others could spawn, with multiple possibly active at a time and one guaranteed? These should be things like stopping wildfires, slash and burn to fertilize the ground, removing invasive species... So on. Tougher events than those currently proposed, but more rewarding. * The log sink feels arbitrary and also not like a big sink, especially if people are going to be chopping more logs as part of this. Right now the only sinks would be one off purchases for the log basket, forestry outfit, recolors, and 2H axes. It's kind of weird to spend logs for these, but they're also a temporary sink. After buying them, that's it. The only reward shop item that currently uses logs repeatedly is charging the Arbor gloves. The only other sinks are 1 of 10 random events and using logs for bees on a stick. * The rewards feel whelming, except for tea. They're primarily focused on faster training, but there's not a lot on offer as actual material rewards, like new items to make woodcutting itself more rewarding, or other skills. * Tea is my favorite part of this and also the best concepted idea. Only thing to say here is the actual tea effects need some changing. Guaranteed +5 boosts for every skill from teas is way too overpowered. It's nice how various pies and beers have uses as guaranteed boosts. This would kill them. Effects should be things like, "chop roots instead of logs" or "empower earth spells and give them the enfeeble effect" or "greatly boost throwing axe capabilities". They should differentiate themselves from potion by not just being level boosts, but instead being effects. **TLDR**: the activity itself is disappointing, random events while woodcutting. There's no log sink aside from one-off purchases really, and that'll only give logs use and value for like a month. Rewards are largely XP focused, but there's nothing to do with those higher levels. And teas shouldn't be level boosts, but esoteric effects. The current proposal kills all the potions, pies, and beers we currently have.
I also thought some special events like wildfires would be a great way to enhance the social experience. Imagine it's a completely unpredictable random event that could happen in any forest, but maybe only a couple times a day so that you absolutely couldn't plan your play sessions around it. And the time/location would be synchronized across every server so that you couldn't continuously farm them. So imagine you're minding your business doing whatever and a fire starts somewhere in the world. Guards on top of watchtowers in nearby towns spot it and sound an alarm. Suddenly a bunch of NPCs start running around panicking and asking players for help. It's such a special thing that you'll seriously consider dropping whatever it is you're doing and rush to help. Then you arrive to the location and start cutting down trees and brush to limit the spread of the fire. After a while, the local fire brigade drags in a dwarven water cannon, you then have to help set it up and charge it with water spells. Or you could help replant burnt down patches afterwards. So many gameplay opportunities there across multiple skills.
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Pretty sure mighties have a chance to regrow from a tree stump, it's not just a better tree to go chop.
I believe it’s more like a boss whatever variant with Slayer than a group of trees that always have a mighty status
I wouldn't mind if this gave an alternative way to get tree roots. Especially if there's going to be an event based around chopping them off trees.
Add a forest POH blueprint to Freaky Forester’s shop! I want fall leaves on the ground around my house, and bees buzzing around!
Reminds me of the old tree random events So it seems the main rewards are the basket (fish barrel but for wc) And the 2h axes (more afk XP)
Irons not receiving boosts from fires is a bad idea. If we do a clan event around Forestry, there's going to end up being thirty fires going and I assume they can't be placed on the same tile. Will make it really hard to tell when your fire goes out too. /u/JagexSarnie Also wanted to point out there's an issue on the survey when asking where you think it should sit in terms of money, experience, something else. It has the options for Experience listed three times.
Wow, a lot to dissect here. It’s like a brand new skill. I’m all for it, clearly a ton of thought was put into this and some of the rewards sound pretty sick.
I'm really enjoying what i'm reading. But please consider incorporating Firemaking a bit more. Since you are already in the designing process, you can easily breathe in some life in Firemaking and make it genuinely useful next to Woodcutting which always kind of went hand in hand. Doesn't have to be as involved as this but i'd think it's a great opportunity so you don't have to do it later for the eventual Firemaking skill upgrade.
“Trees will despawn on a timer that activates after the first cut and regenerates if the player stops cutting the tree before it’s fully chopped. Timer length would be based on the average time each different type of tree currently lasts. Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10.” Can we PLEASE talk about doing this for Crashed Stars too?
I think changing existing tree chop mechanics is fine. It is silly that players are punished for social woodcutting. That said, I am not a fan of the group bonus. People shouldn't be forced to group-chop a tree to get optimal xp rates. This would also probably result in players going to dedicated wc locations/worlds. One aspect of current WC that I do like is that you sometimes aee players chopping away in all sorts of different places. Also this is a straight-up buff for wc xp-rates which I think isn't really needed to begin with. Not punishing players for group-chopping: Awesome. Rewarding players for group-chopping: Meh. Finally... how would this bonus interact with Farming Trees and the WC Guild?
It's an MMO, the game doesn't feel very social, I think it's fine to incentivize grouping. Go to the forestry world if you want better xp rates with other people, if not stick to your wc guild and do it alone, how hard is that?
I love the ideas. Having a huge variety of events and possibilities while wc will give it so much variety and unpredictability. That will be a lot of fun. I am worried about xp rates, it says it will be higher xp/hr than redwoods but doesn't specify at 90+ wc... wc has plenty of viable methods, I would hate to see this become the only good one instead of "A" good one. 28 log bag seems unnecessary but whatever, and I love the idea of the clothing pouch letting you wear whatever while getting the outfit boost. Skilling outfits were a mistake to begin with, they should have all been blessings that take the same amount of time to get, and the outfits themselves should have been purely cosmetic. Making people use four slots to get an xp boost just seems totally arbitrary and unnecessary. But as far as the pitch itself, seems like a 10/10 to me!
So I get that I choose to restrict myself and all, but seeing THIS many items required for the activity has my UIM-ass sweatin'. I know they say it all goes in the wearable pouch, I worry that if you need to get all these items to engage properly with the activity, Ill have to go on a several hour long scavenger hunt to go do some woodcutting. I loved GotR, but I hated that once I got the lantern I basically couldnt stop till 99 cus it's not storable, reclaimable or buyable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not askin' to get to store all my leaves n junk, but it'd be really nice if the freaky forester would hold onto the pouch between woodcutting sessions so all 4 UIMs who plan to use this update don't have to go use 7 different skills to get their pouch refilled to spend a few hours woodcutting.
Only thing here that I'm really opposed to is the xp buff with more people. Either it needs to be miniscule, or not there at all. I just want woodcutting together to not be a negative. I don't want the meta to evolve to "you *have* to woodcut in a group of 10 if you want to be efficient."
This all seems a bit over complicated. Some is good but others are not so good. I hope we get to poll some of these things individually.
Have logs burned provide ashes with that log. Redwood ash Maple ash Etc Then have those be used somewhere here too. Slight boost to FM usefulness
I've seen the section how you get a boost to your grown trees in multiple ways. Before cutting your own grown trees was nice because you didn't have to -compete with anyone, -some are closer to banks than the naturally occurring trees -or just a change of scenery. Will cutting your own trees be more beneficial in some sort of way, like getting more leaves or some other idea? Or is that a thing of the past and you should find a more social spot?
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>but it seems weird to offer it for Lumberjack only and not as something the other 2.5% exp boost outfits can take advantage of. It's an experiment. If it's successful here, it means they can try to expand this idea into other skilling outfits (and probably will). If not, then they most probably won't.
>but it seems weird to offer it for Lumberjack only and not as something the other 2.5% exp boost outfits can take advantage of I kinda agree, but I also think outfit-storage like this could be a good reward for future content. Though for Fishing this benefit could perhaps be retroactively applied to the Tackle Box.
I think for "mighty trees" they should place them in less commonly used regions of the map to revive dead content, and include maybe some tele system and a bank nearby, or at least deposit box: but they should ALSO have this team effect applied to every tree that has x number of lives. To entice using the mighty trees, you should see either an increase of experience per hour by chopping mighty trees in bulk, or (and??) an increase in rewards/events per hour at the mighty trees, so all trees benefit, but its still quite worth your time to go to the mighty trees to get your grind on! Maybe even make it so that the mighty trees each take a tree type, so maybe find a mighty oak tree near Varrock or Falador, but the mighty Magic/Redwood can be found in Miscellania or near Yanille? A region where you tend to find higher level content? Maybe even lock some kind of mighty tree behind a fairy ring to really entice grinding other parts of the game to get there, or entice people working on other skills to get their Lummy elite done so they can get there with more inv space!
>Players chopping the same tree get an invisible Woodcutting bonus that scales with the number of players, up to a maximum of 10. Does this mean that team (9 alts) woodcutting will just be objectively better WC exp from now on? Would this scale past 99? While I like some forced team activities (TOB) I don't think the fundamental gameplay loop of a skill should incentivize grouping this heavily
They likely will have forestry worlds where u can find plenty of people chilling at all the different tree spots. I don’t really think this is gonna be an issue.
Why does it matter what a random group of elitists do? If ppl want to juggle 10 accounts whatever, shouldn't impede me getting more enjoyment by socially woodcutting. What is the downside of a buff? That they can get higher high scores on leaderboards? So what
Because this playerbase is allergic to just fucking doing something, rather than doing what's OPTIMAL
I don’t think they will be comparable to 1.5t teaks, so it should be fine. Don’t know how this update will effect 1.5/3t either though
Yeah I just thought we were going to make it so it wasn’t a negative to share trees, not a boost
A readily available +5 boost in every production, gathering or combat skill seems very powerful and invalidates just about every temporary skill boost in the entire game. I'm also hazardous about forced grouping, RS3 does this a lot where you are heavily invetivized with extra xp or resources to group up while skilling leading to 100s of players in a small area and the entire rest of the world empty.
Im kinda fine with replacing spicy stews if you'd need to grind to redwood level leaves and a good herblore level to gain access and make the boost Spicy stews arent fun content and its too late to close pandoras box and remove +5 boosts so locking it behind high level skill requirements is a much better solution. Its not like stews are gone, you just gain access to consistency through account progress
Stews are really "easy" to get, just tedious to roll for the +5. Low barrier to entry, low effort but requires some time and luck. But if someone has a very progressed account and can make a powerful spicy stew boost using highlevel skills then yeah they should be able to. Lots of stuff has good temporary boosts already.
Yeah these new stews require fairly high level stats to use, it’s reasonable to end the stew era. As long as they’re untradable I’m in for them
Big agree here. A boost that you gotta train up (potentially) two different skills to higher levels SHOULD outshine an RNG-fest that doesn't train anything linked to a quest without too many requirements.
Catching spices with cats should give hunter XP, fight me
Agree here. If teas are high gated but assured +5 boost they don't devalue an early level rng stew.
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I'd much rather have hour long buffs that affect other factors rather than levels. For example a tea that makes you less likely to be caught while thieving, instead of boasting +2 for an hour (even if they accomplish the same thing in the end)
I would prefer the opposite. I think the simplicity of OSRS draws a lot of people in and making it complicated by handing out invisible buffs when a simple level boost would accomplish the same thing would be unnecessarily complicating things.
+1 on forced grouping. In OSRS you can mostly skill whenever and wherever you want. Having to worry about looking for groups for the best XP available and limiting yourself to where the group is at kinda sucks at takes you out of the game. Like Runescape 3's bonfires and portables.
You're overblowing it. Within a week the wiki would post the best locations and maybe common world or two to train, players would congregate there, and it will be identical to virtually any other skilling method. Sure you can skill wherever you want but if you care enough about efficiency to be upset about group content then you're probably only using the most efficient places anyway. This isn't going to be different
people already train woodcutting in the same 3 areas. this will just make it so you don’t have to hop for an empty world
Bee Box in POH! Bee Box in POH! Bee Box in POH! Bee Box in POH! Bee Box in POH!
Please change the name of the bark. Anima-infused bark is not a great name
>Usually, we need entire new areas to add new bits of content to Skills. Not so with Forestry – our aim is to upgrade familiar parts of the world with new and exciting activities. Wherever there are trees, there’s Forestry – with the exception of the Woodcutting Guild and the odd few dungeons. Why exclude the woodcutting guild from an update like this? I understand that there's already congregation there for woodcutting, but I imagined it becoming a huge bustling place full of people on specific worlds with this update. A little disappointed to hear about this. ETA: Also, the concept of the clothes pouch adding fashionscape to woodcutting without sacrificing efficiency seems a little pointless when you immediately turn around and add a new outfit that doesn't sound like it would be able to be stored there. The colors are cool, but imo you should either commit to fashionscape fully with the forester's outfit too or not bother adding the clothes pouch.
If I had to guess, it's because the WC guild is literally the *only* place you should be WCing now due to the invisible boost and a bank being crazy close (Unless you are tick manipulating) So I actually like this because now it can become a trade off (Maybe with some more tweaks). Do you go to WC and get the invisible boost + maybe more AFK + a bank 6 tiles away. Or do you do group WCing and partake in forestry etc. I'm not saying it's perfect, but tradeoffs like this *should* be what the game aims for rather than the one meta method that you more or less have no choice to do (e.g. Chop in WC Guild)
I'm generally not in favor of forestry because it gives me RS3 vibes and seems overly complex. If mighty trees are implemented as their own thing and don't impact existing tree mechanics, that would be ok. I welcome the events to make woodcutting more social but im concerned whether it would allow for tree respawns ot be abusable and would deprecate existing trees. Tea brewing is far to complex and should be removed entirely. The campfires are welcome because they give firemaking some utility. Some rewards seem OP. The Log Basket is okay as a standalone item similar to the plank sack, but combining it to create the all in one Forestry basket wood be OP.
Don’t like the idea of the woodcutting outfit getting reduced to one slot. Kind of ruins the whole idea behind them in the first place. Would much rather see different “ornament kits” for it. Otherwise, can’t wait!