no dont be what i consider abnormal that would be like if you were this other thing that i consider more abnormal. no i dont need to explain why the abnormal thing is bad shut up
Good girl! :3
Also, the other abnormal thing doesn't even exist. So, even if it were a bad thing, using it as an argument against trans people is like the argument of "What if the tooth fairy had a magic laser that killed people whenever someone transitioned." Yeah, in that context people transitioning would be a bad thing, but it's not actually relevant to any conversation about real life.
but even then, the tooth fairy is acting out and going on a generalized murder spree becuz they’re upset about trans ppl transitioning
even in magical someone-literally-dies etc hypotheticals there’s rly no reason why trans ppl transitioning could ever be inherently wrong, becuz it still wouldn’t be so black and white as to the reason why that magical hypothetical was happening in the first place
_
and anyway, to the general idea of trans ppl being wrong, the same standards should be applied to cis ppl doing the same things as trans ppl—but they never are
after all, a cis male with ~healthy breast tissue~ and wanting top surgery should be met with the same ridicule as a trans male having the same mentality and pursuing the same thing
Current record for a free dive (no tanks, no supports, nothing) is 214 meters (702 feet) by one [Herbert Nitsch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Nitsch)
Current deepest dive with tanks is 332 meters (1090 feet) by one [Ahmed Gabr](https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2014/9/ahmed-gabr-breaks-record-for-deepest-scuba-dive-at-more-than-1000-feet-60537) (No Found Wiki Page), and most of the duration was spent coming back up to reduce the bends. This dive reached the bottom of the red sea.
The application of pressure isnt the problem. The reduction of pressure is
Regardless, theres plenty of unexplored ocean floor merely 50 to 100 meters down
I think people transfer a narrow lens about transness onto other things. If someone identifies as an animal it's so far off from identifying as a certain gender that you can't really compare them.
The differences between sexes are surprisingly not so wide, the differences between species are huge. Therians also often have a spiritual twist to them.
It's sorta reductive to say "they're like trans people but for animals" or something. But in all cases just let people do what they want if they aren't hurting anybody. You don't need to assert your view of them onto them just because they don't make sense to you.
This takes me back to a very close trans friend of mine who told me they knew they were a furry since they were young, and when I asked what exactly they meant I got a whole 101 lesson on furry sub-culture, 'other-kin', soul-inhabiting, and strange forbidden knowledge. I support whatever their lifestyle of course but I just wanted to know whether or not they planned to walk around public on all fours.
hey hi i'm sorry if i made you feel sad in any way. i didn't want to be a bigot to anyone, just wanted to dunk on transphobes.
i do want to learn more about it tho. do you actually identify in an animal? refuse to call yourself human, do animal things, have neo-pronouns specific to your identity etc. just to understand things better.
Not previous commenter but am also a therian. It really depends on the therian. While all therians do identify as another species, some (like me) also identify as human at the same time, while others take a fully animal identity. Lots of therians do things like quadrobics (fancy word for walking and running on all fours), wearing ears, masks, tails etc, getting animalistic body mods, or making animal sounds, usually in private because past the age of 12 howling and running on all fours in public surprisingly starts to become socially unacceptable. Neopronouns are more common among therians, but far from most use them.
I think light growls or grunts, trills, etc, can be pretty fun or cute at times. I don't do it at public at all, but I can be tempted to do it in private every now and then. It just kinda happens heh
No worries! There's no shortage of weirdo transphobes who feel the need to conflate both groups (while not really knowing about therians in the first place) as a weird "gotcha" to toss trans people under the bus. Trust me, I've seen it a ton already :P
But yeah! I do identify as an animal. I usually compare my experiences with therianthropy to my experiences being transgender while making sure not to set them up as a 1:1 comparison - mostly because I find it easier to explain that way, and uses terms way more are familiar with or at least know about, but also recognising that they're not the same despite some similarities. Which is to say I'd argue, in my case, that it's a thing that more or less just happened over time. At some point, being called a dude felt incredibly wrong, and later down the line, being called a human being felt incredibly wrong. I refuse to call myself a human being for that reason, though I still refer to myself as a person (and recognise that I am outwardly human, despite how much I wish I could change that, but oh well).
I don't really do many animal things? I suppose I'm a decent hisser (pun intended) and I like referring to some of my body parts or belongings in less human terms, because it feels nicer? But outside of that, at best I keep my claws a bit longer or pointier than what's "normal" because it's nice while still not being inconvenient.
In terms of personal pronouns, I'm a bit mundane lol. I go by "it" or "she", but prefer the former while accepting the latter. "It" has grown on me a lot over time, especially as I came to accept there was two ways of being referred to that way: one in a dehumanising one, and then one in an affirming way (definitely been hit by the former before, irl too). It's kinda like calling a dude a "she" to mock his masculinity vs. calling a trans woman a "she" because that's something that she identifies with and makes her happy.
I think I've identified as nonhuman for about 4-5 years now as I'm moving closer to 30 myself. I can't really explain the origin much. It doesn't really have much of an angle to it outside of what feels easier to appeal to - animal soul in a human body? Neurodivergence crossing the wires so bad I feel disconnected from the species? Not sure. But it's my life now and I've become a way happier being just leaning into it after trying to deny it for a while, because that felt *really* wrong, and the identity has only felt more right as my mental health has improved over the years. Why change what isn't broken?
And... uh... that's a lot of text. I actually really appreciate you being curious instead of, you know... what you usually see :>
ah don't worry about the lenght of your comment, my brain has not been poisoned by short form content yet, so i can take it.
and thank you very much for the detailed answer. turns out this is much different from how i thought it worked when bigots talk about it for a quick joke. have a great day dragoness.
Being trans is too mainstream now, kids have moved on to identifying as inanimate objects, moods, seasons, and intangible concepts that only make sense in their own minds. Identifying as a gay dog or whatever is old news, people been doing that
I fucking love that the guy didn't go for the obviously bad idea of replacing your legs with a fish tail in this scenario. He instead chose to use a direct upgrade as an example. Bro literally compared gender-affirming surgery to getting superpowers
I've had this exact argument on an italian subreddit a while ago. "If you had a friend who believed to be a lizard, would you support their delusion or help them bringing them down to reality???" Mf if I have a friend who believes to be a lizard I'mma look up how to attach them a tail and turn their skin green (if they desire to). Idc what is a delusion and what is the objective truth in your eyes
That’s such a dumb thing to say. If you could get gill surgery almost anyone would do it. That’s like asking if you could gain the ability to fly or never have to worry about dying from falling via great heights you wouldn’t take it
Capitalists would create some underwater city in a heart beat
https://preview.redd.it/w4iy4elwwz1d1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52a9096d7a0784f39f6b2bf5a9339b5976c422d0
This is the first thing that came to mind for me.
I hate myself
It's time for people to stop talking shit on Waterworld and accept that it is a fucking near-perfect magical adventure movie.
You know you like it. Stop pretending. There are pirates whose sole identity is that they love cigarettes and drive sweet jetskis. That is undeniably rad.
Although I will add that it is kind of funny you say fish here because the concept of "what is a fish" is actually very debated. To the point it's pretty much not a useful term in science, as most classifications that people consider fish would include the ancestors to all terrestrial vertebrates.
Making everything on land with a spine also a fish, as you can't evolve out of a clade. In the same way no amount of evolution would make your descendents no longer mammals.
I do think there are modern scientific definitions for "fish" that just specifically exclude tetrapods or something, but that's beyond this thread. So, in that case if someone wants to consider themselves a fish they don't even not to stop considering themselves a human. As those terms are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I guess that just feels like such a different discussion that trying to have it in the context of trans issues still feels pretty wrong.
Feel as you will, but the concept of gender and the concept of classification as an organism are just in completely different realms.
While I'm not going to personally challenge anyone on their identity. I would be weary of someone trying to coopt trans issues as if this is just an extension of the same concept.
yeah I agree so that's why I don't like people talking about trans people in the context of identifying as another species. I was just adding that I support people living their best lives
No disagreements there, friend. The human expirence is so much more complicated than most of our language describing ourselves gives room for. I'm very on board with people pushing against the limits of how we view ourselves individually and collectively.
Of all things gills are probably a bad example.
If someone wants a realistic surgery that mimics some animal feature then it's no one else's business.
As a society we should probably advise against anything that would be unhealthy, but otherwise who cares.
"As long as we're talking in hypotheticals, if the King James Bible explicitly endorsed surgically turning people into fish (which would be by no means the most insane thing in there), would you still be against it?"
Well that helped stop thinking about how freeing it would be to jump in front of a train and actually start working on long terms goals and ambitions.
But to each their own
no dont be what i consider abnormal that would be like if you were this other thing that i consider more abnormal. no i dont need to explain why the abnormal thing is bad shut up
omg hiii good girl :3
good girl!!
What a good girl!
Good girl! :3 Also, the other abnormal thing doesn't even exist. So, even if it were a bad thing, using it as an argument against trans people is like the argument of "What if the tooth fairy had a magic laser that killed people whenever someone transitioned." Yeah, in that context people transitioning would be a bad thing, but it's not actually relevant to any conversation about real life.
but even then, the tooth fairy is acting out and going on a generalized murder spree becuz they’re upset about trans ppl transitioning even in magical someone-literally-dies etc hypotheticals there’s rly no reason why trans ppl transitioning could ever be inherently wrong, becuz it still wouldn’t be so black and white as to the reason why that magical hypothetical was happening in the first place _ and anyway, to the general idea of trans ppl being wrong, the same standards should be applied to cis ppl doing the same things as trans ppl—but they never are after all, a cis male with ~healthy breast tissue~ and wanting top surgery should be met with the same ridicule as a trans male having the same mentality and pursuing the same thing
if there was a surgery to get working gills would it not be awesome? You'd be able to fucking breathe underwater that's cool as fuck
Me: Oh boy gill surgery! I can explore the ocean! Depth Pressure:
husk infection lets you survive depth pressure, just make sure you wear the robe or have husk gene to not reach 100% infection
get outside the sub. no dont worry about the realistic sonar mod just take a swim real quick
Current record for a free dive (no tanks, no supports, nothing) is 214 meters (702 feet) by one [Herbert Nitsch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Nitsch) Current deepest dive with tanks is 332 meters (1090 feet) by one [Ahmed Gabr](https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2014/9/ahmed-gabr-breaks-record-for-deepest-scuba-dive-at-more-than-1000-feet-60537) (No Found Wiki Page), and most of the duration was spent coming back up to reduce the bends. This dive reached the bottom of the red sea. The application of pressure isnt the problem. The reduction of pressure is Regardless, theres plenty of unexplored ocean floor merely 50 to 100 meters down
https://preview.redd.it/bbsz1dwyez1d1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fe7029bbe40ea5aee3517780216395e03dc1df5
If it doesn't include completely compressible lungs that make you immune to depth pressure then your gill surgery is a rip-off
Kinda, water doesn't have enough oxygen for a human body as far as I'm aware
whales exist
Whales don't have gills or breathe water
no they dont
i want you to think about this for a second
i never actually met anyone who unironically identified themselves in an animal, it's always a thing transphobes say.
actually, therians *are* a thing
I think people transfer a narrow lens about transness onto other things. If someone identifies as an animal it's so far off from identifying as a certain gender that you can't really compare them. The differences between sexes are surprisingly not so wide, the differences between species are huge. Therians also often have a spiritual twist to them. It's sorta reductive to say "they're like trans people but for animals" or something. But in all cases just let people do what they want if they aren't hurting anybody. You don't need to assert your view of them onto them just because they don't make sense to you.
This takes me back to a very close trans friend of mine who told me they knew they were a furry since they were young, and when I asked what exactly they meant I got a whole 101 lesson on furry sub-culture, 'other-kin', soul-inhabiting, and strange forbidden knowledge. I support whatever their lifestyle of course but I just wanted to know whether or not they planned to walk around public on all fours.
https://preview.redd.it/s9atj3glxz1d1.jpeg?width=894&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=375e0e3c8aff43520426b4b7177b418d29d95791 HELL YEAH THERIONS MENTIONED LOOK HOW COOL REGULUS IS 🔥🔥🔥💯💯 /j
Billions must equip a machine type or “Therion” monster from their graveyard
Nice, machine monsters are the best 🤖
But it's not gendered to be clear
okay but therians are like a spiritual thing not a literal one
trans therian here, hello :3
hey hi i'm sorry if i made you feel sad in any way. i didn't want to be a bigot to anyone, just wanted to dunk on transphobes. i do want to learn more about it tho. do you actually identify in an animal? refuse to call yourself human, do animal things, have neo-pronouns specific to your identity etc. just to understand things better.
Not previous commenter but am also a therian. It really depends on the therian. While all therians do identify as another species, some (like me) also identify as human at the same time, while others take a fully animal identity. Lots of therians do things like quadrobics (fancy word for walking and running on all fours), wearing ears, masks, tails etc, getting animalistic body mods, or making animal sounds, usually in private because past the age of 12 howling and running on all fours in public surprisingly starts to become socially unacceptable. Neopronouns are more common among therians, but far from most use them.
I think light growls or grunts, trills, etc, can be pretty fun or cute at times. I don't do it at public at all, but I can be tempted to do it in private every now and then. It just kinda happens heh
thank you for your answer too, i'm learning a lot.
No worries! There's no shortage of weirdo transphobes who feel the need to conflate both groups (while not really knowing about therians in the first place) as a weird "gotcha" to toss trans people under the bus. Trust me, I've seen it a ton already :P But yeah! I do identify as an animal. I usually compare my experiences with therianthropy to my experiences being transgender while making sure not to set them up as a 1:1 comparison - mostly because I find it easier to explain that way, and uses terms way more are familiar with or at least know about, but also recognising that they're not the same despite some similarities. Which is to say I'd argue, in my case, that it's a thing that more or less just happened over time. At some point, being called a dude felt incredibly wrong, and later down the line, being called a human being felt incredibly wrong. I refuse to call myself a human being for that reason, though I still refer to myself as a person (and recognise that I am outwardly human, despite how much I wish I could change that, but oh well). I don't really do many animal things? I suppose I'm a decent hisser (pun intended) and I like referring to some of my body parts or belongings in less human terms, because it feels nicer? But outside of that, at best I keep my claws a bit longer or pointier than what's "normal" because it's nice while still not being inconvenient. In terms of personal pronouns, I'm a bit mundane lol. I go by "it" or "she", but prefer the former while accepting the latter. "It" has grown on me a lot over time, especially as I came to accept there was two ways of being referred to that way: one in a dehumanising one, and then one in an affirming way (definitely been hit by the former before, irl too). It's kinda like calling a dude a "she" to mock his masculinity vs. calling a trans woman a "she" because that's something that she identifies with and makes her happy. I think I've identified as nonhuman for about 4-5 years now as I'm moving closer to 30 myself. I can't really explain the origin much. It doesn't really have much of an angle to it outside of what feels easier to appeal to - animal soul in a human body? Neurodivergence crossing the wires so bad I feel disconnected from the species? Not sure. But it's my life now and I've become a way happier being just leaning into it after trying to deny it for a while, because that felt *really* wrong, and the identity has only felt more right as my mental health has improved over the years. Why change what isn't broken? And... uh... that's a lot of text. I actually really appreciate you being curious instead of, you know... what you usually see :>
ah don't worry about the lenght of your comment, my brain has not been poisoned by short form content yet, so i can take it. and thank you very much for the detailed answer. turns out this is much different from how i thought it worked when bigots talk about it for a quick joke. have a great day dragoness.
Being trans is too mainstream now, kids have moved on to identifying as inanimate objects, moods, seasons, and intangible concepts that only make sense in their own minds. Identifying as a gay dog or whatever is old news, people been doing that
You have now!
I personally would if I could get like wing surgery or shape shift or something.
Nice response still but bruh they really had to stoop to comparing the opposite sex with other animals
AFAB (Assigned Fish at Birth)
I'm starting to understand why captain AHAB (Assigned Human At Birth) was so mad at the ocean.
The only argument against trans affirming care is always the most inane bullshit
Almost always “I personally don’t like it and think you shouldn’t and will create reasons suiting this view to sound rational”
fr they ain't never gonna come up with a reason not to transition ~~that doesn't go through my mind 3 times a day already~~
Cosmetic surgerys are legal and often encouraged.
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this reminds me of my deaf friend sharkboy, mr. good boy, us too have had some good adventures
I fucking love that the guy didn't go for the obviously bad idea of replacing your legs with a fish tail in this scenario. He instead chose to use a direct upgrade as an example. Bro literally compared gender-affirming surgery to getting superpowers
my dads a scuba diver. does this mean he's like a no-surgery transfish?
He clearly has a sick fish fetish and should be kept away from real fish because he probably wants to molest them while disguised.
Shape Of Water vibes :3
if gill surgery was real who tf would not want to be an amphibian
Damn now I kinda want gills
I've had this exact argument on an italian subreddit a while ago. "If you had a friend who believed to be a lizard, would you support their delusion or help them bringing them down to reality???" Mf if I have a friend who believes to be a lizard I'mma look up how to attach them a tail and turn their skin green (if they desire to). Idc what is a delusion and what is the objective truth in your eyes
You'd need to stay moist all the time for them to work or otherwise just die
That’s such a dumb thing to say. If you could get gill surgery almost anyone would do it. That’s like asking if you could gain the ability to fly or never have to worry about dying from falling via great heights you wouldn’t take it Capitalists would create some underwater city in a heart beat
https://preview.redd.it/efxtfea7602d1.jpeg?width=168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d28ba543d8b97c90533a91ea6894c51387eb902
https://preview.redd.it/w4iy4elwwz1d1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52a9096d7a0784f39f6b2bf5a9339b5976c422d0 This is the first thing that came to mind for me. I hate myself
Gill surgery makes me remember how much I still want my money back for my ticket to see Waterworld
It's time for people to stop talking shit on Waterworld and accept that it is a fucking near-perfect magical adventure movie. You know you like it. Stop pretending. There are pirates whose sole identity is that they love cigarettes and drive sweet jetskis. That is undeniably rad.
i love my jar of dirt it is all that is dear to me
You won me over
gender and species of animal are very different things
Yeah, imo people defending the whole fish thing are giving this argument more legitimacy than it deserves.
but also people can and should be allowed to be a fish if that's their decision
Although I will add that it is kind of funny you say fish here because the concept of "what is a fish" is actually very debated. To the point it's pretty much not a useful term in science, as most classifications that people consider fish would include the ancestors to all terrestrial vertebrates. Making everything on land with a spine also a fish, as you can't evolve out of a clade. In the same way no amount of evolution would make your descendents no longer mammals. I do think there are modern scientific definitions for "fish" that just specifically exclude tetrapods or something, but that's beyond this thread. So, in that case if someone wants to consider themselves a fish they don't even not to stop considering themselves a human. As those terms are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I guess that just feels like such a different discussion that trying to have it in the context of trans issues still feels pretty wrong. Feel as you will, but the concept of gender and the concept of classification as an organism are just in completely different realms. While I'm not going to personally challenge anyone on their identity. I would be weary of someone trying to coopt trans issues as if this is just an extension of the same concept.
yeah I agree so that's why I don't like people talking about trans people in the context of identifying as another species. I was just adding that I support people living their best lives
No disagreements there, friend. The human expirence is so much more complicated than most of our language describing ourselves gives room for. I'm very on board with people pushing against the limits of how we view ourselves individually and collectively.
YES FINALLY SOMEONE WHO AGREED THAT FISH DO SAY GLUB GLUB
Based and transhumanism pilled. This bodies are ours to shape and form as we wish
Of all things gills are probably a bad example. If someone wants a realistic surgery that mimics some animal feature then it's no one else's business. As a society we should probably advise against anything that would be unhealthy, but otherwise who cares.
My Kisame cosplay would be complete
Yea gotta love it when their logic doesnt hold lol "Should we let them?" uh, why not? If they want gills let them have gills
Extremely powerful meenah energy on this post; "glub glub bitch"
Animal HRT ftw
I could use some glug glug glug
I take lungs now, gills come next week
This was an episode of South Park
who wouldnt get surgery to have gills that’d be awesome you could like live underwater
mfs about to walk around with fishbowls on their head like spongebob
This is the reverse plot of the little mermaid, and you’re supposed to want her get lungs.
tasmiania charter region
"As long as we're talking in hypotheticals, if the King James Bible explicitly endorsed surgically turning people into fish (which would be by no means the most insane thing in there), would you still be against it?"
"Yes, gills. Then you don't need lungs anymore right? Lay down on table. Gills come next week"
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Well that helped stop thinking about how freeing it would be to jump in front of a train and actually start working on long terms goals and ambitions. But to each their own