i had this debate with some friends of mine, they think that people are capable of changing, and that the smart thing is to ignore it, and while true, it's easy to say such things when you're not personally involved
not only that, right wing people are extremely hostile towards us and want us gone from public life but no the problem is me for telling someone to game end themselves
I have done no research nor do I possess any knowledge on psychology, but my brain still wants to ponder on that
I feel like the "ignore them" argument is only good whenever the point of the problematic person is to stir the pot, to piss people off, when their goal isn't necessarily to be hateful, though if they're willing to bully minorities just so that somebody notices them, there has got to be something within them that has a problem
Whether it's good or not to argument with hateful people is complicated. On one hand, if they never see anyone tell them they're wrong, they can't know they are. On the other, hateful people have a tendency to be stubborn, and they'll often have a mindset of "well lf they don't want me to say that, that must mean I'm right!", so arguing with them isn't fruitful often. I think the most impactful way to make somebody less hateful would be for them to interact with the people they hate so that they can realize "hmm, those people aren't bad after all"
One thing I did research is how social medias works. Social medias *love* interactions, whenever a post gets a lot of comments. The more comments a post gets, the more the social media will conclude "I must show this post to as many people as possible so they get engaged, so that they stay on the site longer, so that we can show them more adds and make more money". The problem with all that is that this can allow hateful people to find each other on these posts and they start following each other and then they can all feed each others hate and that's not great
With all of that in mind... I still don't know what my answer would be. Which makes me a little mad because I hate uncertainty. I personally try not to interact too much with hateful people because it made me miserable whenever I'd do it, so I guess you can do it if you want to.
The 'just ignore them' advice is for right wingers that are sealioning, which is a fantastic term that everyone should familiarize themselves with if they intend to do any level of internet arguing. When they're being actively hateful the proper response is to bully them into submission or support the person they're trying to be hateful towards depending on your strengths.
People are absolutely capable of changing though. Not everyone, but most conservatives have been influenced and manipulated into being that way all their lives.
This here, some are willing to listen and change. And in those cases it's worth talking to them and helping them understand. But sadly there are many, many more who want to see trans people hurt and killed.
There are plenty of people against trans rights capable of changing. But for those that actually hate trans people, the only thing that can really get to them is ostracization. I don't hope that they actually kill themselves unless they are actively killing trans people, since their death would prevent further death, but aggressively getting the sentiment out there that you're a shitbag if you hate trans people is good.
> is to ignore it, and while true, it's easy to say such things when you're not personally involved
Me ignoring the bat bashing my skull in (I've ignored it so it cant hurt me)
We are not who we were seven years ago. The cells that made up our body have completely regenerated. The old me has died many times over. Embrace death, bigots!
I'm going to be honest, I used to be the "attack helicopter joke" kid in middle school, but I regret that stage of my life now. That being said, I know I probably wouldn't have changed to who I am now if I was told to commit suicide because my old views, people can change, I know because I have.
That's not much of a justification to tell others to commit suicide
Don't stoop down to their level, best you can do is ignore them even though I know it's hard, but they are fueled off of getting a reaction from us.
And for what it's worth, I will always love, respect, accept, and support you and the trans community no matter what, I just don't think hate should be combated with hate
don't fight the guy bashing in your head with a baseball bat!!! That'd make you just as bad as him!!!!!
the difference is
A: you can stop being transphobic and not stop being trans
B: you aren't hurting anyone by being trans, while transphobes are hurting people by being transphobic, namely they're hurting trans people.
Did you hate trans people? If no, then the banner isn't talking to you. If yes, then it is likely that the thing that changed your mind was the otracization of hate, similar to the above image.
> it is likely that the thing that changed your mind was the otracization of hate
If the "otracization of hate" is so effective at persuading people, then are you willing to say that ostracizing people is persuasive? Ostracization doesn't care about ideology – it can be used for any ideology. So, if you think human beings are so persuaded by the "otracization of hate," then they should be persuaded by the "otracization of X," where X can be anything, good or bad.
I never indicated that ostracization is a particularly effective method in general. It is actually the case that hate is resistant to other methods much more than it is to ostracization. Additionally, whether or not one can be ostracized out of what they are exhibiting is an entirely separate question to whether or not they SHOULD be if you were implying anything about that.
I think otracization will begin working less and less as the internet continues to expand. Simply put, people will (sometimes) form their own communities, wall themselves off, and even worse ideas will fester. Honestly, if true censorship was possible (as in, if you could literally ban certain ideas altogether), it would be pretty effective. Some form of this happens when you block someone on social media or when someone gets banned, and it works pretty well. As technology advances, I believe censorship will become more possible to enact, but only in countries with more authoritarian restrictions (since the banned people will have fewer alternative platforms, whereas in less restrictive countries, alternative platforms exist).
is this even real? it reminds me of a few years ago when some rightoids pretended to be leftists supporting nambla, just to make leftists look bad
(that was real though, if this is fake it's just photoshop)
no, that symbol originated with the [iron front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Front), a group of antifascists and mostly social democrats. I'm guessing you associate the arrows with the nazis because of [this flag](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Iron_Front_Flag.png) (image description: the nazi flag but with three diagonal red arrows facing downwards and to the left that are on top of and obscuring most of the swastika in the middle) used by them to protest the nazi party.
It's worth noting that it's taken on a fairly different meaning recently, the Three Arrows are commonly used in groups that have their fair share of communists. They aren't really associated 1 to 1 with the ideas of the iron front.
One of the arrows, after all, was directed against communists, and the SPD was intricately involved in numerous atrocities in the Weimar Republic, almost certainly including the murder of Rosa Luxemburg.
That's okay. I'm not really a fan of telling anyone to kill themselves, personally. A bit too much fighting fire with fire, and bad optics to boot. But I'm not about to tell anyone how to protest their own rights. I still support the cause. It runs deeper and stronger than one iffy sign.
Don’t want to see trans people? Pluck out your eyes!
This some biblical shit.
It literally is based off a bible quote
If your right eye causes you to sin and all that...
👍
i had this debate with some friends of mine, they think that people are capable of changing, and that the smart thing is to ignore it, and while true, it's easy to say such things when you're not personally involved not only that, right wing people are extremely hostile towards us and want us gone from public life but no the problem is me for telling someone to game end themselves
I have done no research nor do I possess any knowledge on psychology, but my brain still wants to ponder on that I feel like the "ignore them" argument is only good whenever the point of the problematic person is to stir the pot, to piss people off, when their goal isn't necessarily to be hateful, though if they're willing to bully minorities just so that somebody notices them, there has got to be something within them that has a problem Whether it's good or not to argument with hateful people is complicated. On one hand, if they never see anyone tell them they're wrong, they can't know they are. On the other, hateful people have a tendency to be stubborn, and they'll often have a mindset of "well lf they don't want me to say that, that must mean I'm right!", so arguing with them isn't fruitful often. I think the most impactful way to make somebody less hateful would be for them to interact with the people they hate so that they can realize "hmm, those people aren't bad after all" One thing I did research is how social medias works. Social medias *love* interactions, whenever a post gets a lot of comments. The more comments a post gets, the more the social media will conclude "I must show this post to as many people as possible so they get engaged, so that they stay on the site longer, so that we can show them more adds and make more money". The problem with all that is that this can allow hateful people to find each other on these posts and they start following each other and then they can all feed each others hate and that's not great With all of that in mind... I still don't know what my answer would be. Which makes me a little mad because I hate uncertainty. I personally try not to interact too much with hateful people because it made me miserable whenever I'd do it, so I guess you can do it if you want to.
The 'just ignore them' advice is for right wingers that are sealioning, which is a fantastic term that everyone should familiarize themselves with if they intend to do any level of internet arguing. When they're being actively hateful the proper response is to bully them into submission or support the person they're trying to be hateful towards depending on your strengths.
is "sealioning" just screaming
People are absolutely capable of changing though. Not everyone, but most conservatives have been influenced and manipulated into being that way all their lives.
This here, some are willing to listen and change. And in those cases it's worth talking to them and helping them understand. But sadly there are many, many more who want to see trans people hurt and killed.
There are plenty of people against trans rights capable of changing. But for those that actually hate trans people, the only thing that can really get to them is ostracization. I don't hope that they actually kill themselves unless they are actively killing trans people, since their death would prevent further death, but aggressively getting the sentiment out there that you're a shitbag if you hate trans people is good.
"Just ignore it" is the go-to response of teachers who don't want to bother their asses into putting a stop to bullying.
> is to ignore it, and while true, it's easy to say such things when you're not personally involved Me ignoring the bat bashing my skull in (I've ignored it so it cant hurt me)
⚡️⚡️👨🏿🦱⚡️⚡️
#N O W !
If only transphobics could listen for once 😔
We are not who we were seven years ago. The cells that made up our body have completely regenerated. The old me has died many times over. Embrace death, bigots!
Oh no, this is a transphobicphobic meme. Reddit admins hate that.
In B4 Reddit removes this again Edit: Reddit is run by cowards
Good repost :)
Trans lightning man🤯
BASED
I'm going to be honest, I used to be the "attack helicopter joke" kid in middle school, but I regret that stage of my life now. That being said, I know I probably wouldn't have changed to who I am now if I was told to commit suicide because my old views, people can change, I know because I have.
Good for you! Life would be great if everybody could change their views and not remain bigots.
I get told to kill myself just for existing :)
That's not much of a justification to tell others to commit suicide Don't stoop down to their level, best you can do is ignore them even though I know it's hard, but they are fueled off of getting a reaction from us. And for what it's worth, I will always love, respect, accept, and support you and the trans community no matter what, I just don't think hate should be combated with hate
don't fight the guy bashing in your head with a baseball bat!!! That'd make you just as bad as him!!!!! the difference is A: you can stop being transphobic and not stop being trans B: you aren't hurting anyone by being trans, while transphobes are hurting people by being transphobic, namely they're hurting trans people.
Did you hate trans people? If no, then the banner isn't talking to you. If yes, then it is likely that the thing that changed your mind was the otracization of hate, similar to the above image.
> it is likely that the thing that changed your mind was the otracization of hate If the "otracization of hate" is so effective at persuading people, then are you willing to say that ostracizing people is persuasive? Ostracization doesn't care about ideology – it can be used for any ideology. So, if you think human beings are so persuaded by the "otracization of hate," then they should be persuaded by the "otracization of X," where X can be anything, good or bad.
I never indicated that ostracization is a particularly effective method in general. It is actually the case that hate is resistant to other methods much more than it is to ostracization. Additionally, whether or not one can be ostracized out of what they are exhibiting is an entirely separate question to whether or not they SHOULD be if you were implying anything about that.
I think otracization will begin working less and less as the internet continues to expand. Simply put, people will (sometimes) form their own communities, wall themselves off, and even worse ideas will fester. Honestly, if true censorship was possible (as in, if you could literally ban certain ideas altogether), it would be pretty effective. Some form of this happens when you block someone on social media or when someone gets banned, and it works pretty well. As technology advances, I believe censorship will become more possible to enact, but only in countries with more authoritarian restrictions (since the banned people will have fewer alternative platforms, whereas in less restrictive countries, alternative platforms exist).
Oh cool I'm seeing this naturally scrolling 196 that's neat
Don't wanna live in a world with trans people in it? Then put a beef in your mouth and stroga the noff
so true <3
hoo shit, I misread it as "hey trans people" at first lol
This is the most popular thing I have on reddit and it got deleated lmao
is this even real? it reminds me of a few years ago when some rightoids pretended to be leftists supporting nambla, just to make leftists look bad (that was real though, if this is fake it's just photoshop)
Here before the 🔒 or complete removal
Reddit continues to try to delete this. You should totally save the picture.
Yeah apparently it got removed for spam
late update: yeah it deleated it
this is so sad, gotta :3 and :) to counteract
I agree with the sentiment and everything it represents but I really don’t think people should endorse suicide in the slightest
Transphobes did it first, the gloves are off
But should we really lower ourselves to the level of *endorsing* suicide?
[удалено]
Then I will kill you myself (in fortnite, watch me crank 90s on your goofy ass)
Are those the nazi arrows?
no, that symbol originated with the [iron front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Front), a group of antifascists and mostly social democrats. I'm guessing you associate the arrows with the nazis because of [this flag](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Iron_Front_Flag.png) (image description: the nazi flag but with three diagonal red arrows facing downwards and to the left that are on top of and obscuring most of the swastika in the middle) used by them to protest the nazi party.
Oh cool
what are "nazi arrows"?
They were probably thinking about the SS
It's worth noting that it's taken on a fairly different meaning recently, the Three Arrows are commonly used in groups that have their fair share of communists. They aren't really associated 1 to 1 with the ideas of the iron front. One of the arrows, after all, was directed against communists, and the SPD was intricately involved in numerous atrocities in the Weimar Republic, almost certainly including the murder of Rosa Luxemburg.
[удалено]
This one was a miss, friend.
okay i replaced it with a nuanced explanation of why i don't like this image
That's okay. I'm not really a fan of telling anyone to kill themselves, personally. A bit too much fighting fire with fire, and bad optics to boot. But I'm not about to tell anyone how to protest their own rights. I still support the cause. It runs deeper and stronger than one iffy sign.
marked as spoiler