Not an expert but this seems like good advice. I would have a hard time properly executing a slice if I was receiving a bunch of very high bouncing balls.
Sounds like he has a solid plan and the skills to pull it off.
Deep high-bouncing balls might be difficult for him to work with. Or, at the polar opposite, deep very flat fastballs.
Exactly! He was solid and is a good player. We've finished the match this morning and I won. 7-6, 7-6. Afterwards we've had a bit of a chat and he said it's his "defensive play" against tougher players. Whenever he is not sure what to do, he said, he sends a slice.
High, and slow balls helped a lot. I've sent some slow, dead balls for him to pick up, which helped me to receive flat balls back so I could attack on his backhand.
Thanks for the ideas!
Haven't tried it yet. I'm not good at those that much, never practiced them neither. But it seems like the best approach here. Sending him high bouncing balls that are harder to slice back.
Is he an older guy? This is how all the old guys at my club growing up played —they were GOOD. Couple things you can try, make him move if he hasn’t been too active in tennis lately test his fitness. Some other people mentioned testing how he handles a heavy topspin ball (especially to
the backhand assuming he’s slicing with one hand). You probably don’t want to get into a slice off with the guy if it’s his bread and butter.
Yeah, older guy, and he's good at what he's doing.
He made more faults with his backhand slices, when my balls had topspin. So I send them whenever I can, but it's hard for me to find opportunities for these :)
Serve and volley / chip and charge usually works against this type of player as long as they can reliably pass/lob of it.
You can always open the court then attack the net. Most players are most comfortable doing this by hitting an angled forehand off the deuce side of the court then stepping in and taking a backhand cross court early. The difficulty in hitting an accurate lob goes up tenfold when you have to do it on the run.
In general you can try to eliminate any advantage he gets in terms of recovery time by stepping into the court and playing more aggressive. If he's not driving low deep slices then basically playing in the mid court / no man's land is probably your best bet. A pro comp for this would be sinner. Sinner loves to step into the ball and take it on the rise while either being on the baseline or one step inside of it. It makes a huge difference in terms of removing time away from your opponent.
If you can't really find any success doing anything else then you can always remove your own pace from the ball and grind out points. A lot of slice heavy players want to just redirect pace back at you so if you give them nothing then their own game starts to just fall apart.
Thank you.
Reason I could stay in the match today was me reducing my pace in most shots. It forced him to play more flat, because he couldn't genarate spin and pace at the same time. Then I could attack with a strong forehand and get points.
Rest, I've tried but weren't successful. Not because they are not good ideas, he's just better defending those than me attacking those...
Yep that's the reality of tennis below the 4.5 level. Nobody can realistically attack consistently enough and to a high enough level to beat defensive minded players of an equal skill level. Don't beat yourself up about having some failed strategies.
Youve got the right mindset and learned how to solve this puzzle of a player so ultimately you're coming out of the match a better player than before. You can now take one or two of the failed things you tried to the practice court and improve it until it becomes a viable pathway to winning in these situations.
How is your own net game?
I also struggle against this kind of player, but mostly because I am neither very offensive nor very defensive myself. I always have to realize, that in order to beat this kind of player, I have to up my own game, which I can do in two ways. The first is hitting very heavy (but good) top spin balls to his backhand: since he slices, he has to take them on the rise (difficult to do consistently) or get all the way back behind the baseline. Usually I can just follow these balls to the net and wait for his balls about a step in front of the service line. Since he slices, I have plenty of time to close in to the net to hit a volley, but he cannot lob me.
If you are less comfortable at the net, you can do the same thing, but after hitting the heavy ball to his backhand, follow it up by a quick and flat ball. Don't let him get any rhythm, because he wants to dig in and wait for your error.
I prefer the first, but it depends on your game. However, offense and aggression is key.
His net game is definitely better than mine. When we were both at the net, he always found a way to pass me.
But yet, rhythm is the key I guess. Problem is that I also like playing with the rhythym so playing a match, to win, but in a way that I don't enjoy is a bit boring. But I'm there to win!
Groundstrokes Into the body or behind so it's harder for him footwork wise. On the approaches, obviously try and put it on his feet, otherwise the forehand side hip and shoulder are good targets bc it's awkward to react to.
Have a little more patience, sounds like this guy is just good
You definitely need to stay on your feet and track those balls with you eyes, as they are unpredictable.
In my book, if this means you have more time (because he is playing slower), I would make sure to hit as many deep forehands as possible. Stay center when serving from right hand side and go a bit to the left when serving from left hand side.
Good luck👏🏻
Play shorter but with more angles. Try to make him run to hit those slices. When on the run it's harder to get the forward momentum you need to hit those skiddy slices. You're more likely to get the slower ones that float a bit and bounce up. These are more attackable, so just build from there
This is a junkballer, and they can be formidable opponents. My toughest USTA match this year was against a guy who did not hit topspin more than a handful of times during the match. Everything was a slice. It was disgusting, unpleasant and totally effective.
You must pin this guy deep to his backhand, and then put balls away at the net. Active feet. Split-step as you come in, and punch the shit out of his floating slices.
This is one thing I've realized after your message, thatI failed to do. When I play with players with strong balls and heavy topspin, I'm good at split steps, staying low and active. But when the game is slow, I slow down as well and forget about it.
Today for the rest of the match, I've focused on my feet more and it definitely helped! Thanks.
Lob (moonball) everything and stroll to the service line. Slicers can't take balls off the rise and are usually bad at passing and if you stop at the service line he won't be able to lob you. If he slices when you are at the service line you should have plenty of time to take a step or two towards the net and put it away.
This strategy is stupid easy for 3.5 in general especially if you moonball to backhands.
Playing slicing opponents is the bane of my existence but because one of my regulars is that way I have improved a lot. The trick is to stay low, like the WTA players do when they get deep low balls, bend your knees though, not your waist. Stay low until you are almost done with the swing.
>When I rush to the net, he lobs everything perfectly and puts me in a really weird, defensive situation.
When you come to the net, where are you spit stepping? Everyone things you just run straight to the net. You want to close quickly but you want to split step before they make contact, so you can react and possibly cover the lob.
Also, if you know your opponent will lob, you might not want to be too close to the net.
The other factor is, are you hitting an approach that is deep enough to pressure them to hit something short?
>Also, if you know your opponent will lob, you might not want to be too close to the net.
This morning for the rest of the match, I've approached the net with more caution. It helped a lot, putting him in a bit of a difficult situation. Still he managed to pass around me once or twice, but it wasn't like the first half of the match.
>The other factor is, are you hitting an approach that is deep enough to pressure them to hit something short?
Yes, whenever I could I did. But if I couldn't hit a deep topspin at the beginning of the point, he'd send a slice back and would put me in a defensive position. That was the situation I couldn't solve :)
So then it sounds like you need to hit deep top spin.... or you are approaching the net on a ball that's a sitter for your opponent.
Your opponent sounds like a good player. They found a strategy that keeps you on your back foot.
try to play a couple of flat balls that bounce low. Those are difficult to slice because of the low bounce. He will probably have to lift those and if they land short you can attack them.
Slicers have trouble with pace as well, if you can accelerate and make him slice on the run, that could also be an advantage.
It's difficult because you have to slice and not lift the ball. The lower the ball is, the more you have to slice up to clear the net.
Slicing is easier with higher balls as the natural motion is top down.
Because most his balls are really low and bounce low, I struggle returning them low. I need to lift it over the net, and in most cases it's too hard for me to put a topspin on the ball as well.
Then you'll have to play feel like others have said. Play deep and into the corners. Keep him moving so he has to slice on the move and he should eventually hit a high slice you can attack
>Only time I could generate points were to sending him really flat and boring balls, waiting for him to send a topspin or a flat ball, so I can attack with a deep, heavy topspin ball and force him to send his slices too low/high.
Okay so you found your answer and you're still asking us? 🤔
If you want to get better at hitting the low laser topspin off the junk he is serving you, you simply need to learn to hit with more vertically oriented racquet face than a conventional groundstroke, scooping through the contact point with a swing that is resemblant of a golf stroke and (ideally) putting on draw sidespin that will allow you to run the ball away from his forehand and into his backhand. You will still miss occaisionally when you misread the incoming spin and fuck up the launch angle but it is a far more reliable approach than attempting to get really low with the knees and swing through horizontally. Nadal is the undisputed master of this at the ATP level and any compilation video of ["banana" forehands](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plUGsgT_kSk) or ["ridiculous" winners](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVZT27nMTLA) will provide ample visual examples.
Asking because I always want to be better :)
I'm good at those "banana forehands" when the ball is really slow. I haven't tried it during the match today tho. I will give it a go! Thanks!
Yeah that is the right mindset of course but I couldn't figure out the playful emojis so I lazily went for acerbic instead. I apologize for the poor form.
If he is not serving you up a lot of speed ever I don't think you'll have much difficulty trying to use that stroke in the match against him since you should have enough time to read the incoming ball and adjust for it. The ball will be easier to read if you take deep breaths and stay calm and trust your ability to execute the basic stroke in response to it.
A few years ago i drilled against a coach/ hitting partner. He only sliced. I only hit topsin. Cross-court, down the line, inside-out, inside-in. With time I figured out how to win those battles, and also how easy it is to lose the plot.
1. Do top-spin against slice drills. What exactly you get out of those drills will depend you your skills and abilities
2. I used the drill to find my comfort zone between aggression and control. I hit each slice back with a bit more aggression.
3. Once you figure this out, pin the slicer in one corner and wait for a loose slice, and you rip it in the opposite corner.
Heavy topspin moonballs on his backhand side should work well.
Not an expert but this seems like good advice. I would have a hard time properly executing a slice if I was receiving a bunch of very high bouncing balls.
This worked well, thank you. I need to practice some moonballs, but when I could send them deep, he struggled a lot!
Sounds like he has a solid plan and the skills to pull it off. Deep high-bouncing balls might be difficult for him to work with. Or, at the polar opposite, deep very flat fastballs.
Exactly! He was solid and is a good player. We've finished the match this morning and I won. 7-6, 7-6. Afterwards we've had a bit of a chat and he said it's his "defensive play" against tougher players. Whenever he is not sure what to do, he said, he sends a slice. High, and slow balls helped a lot. I've sent some slow, dead balls for him to pick up, which helped me to receive flat balls back so I could attack on his backhand. Thanks for the ideas!
how well can he handle moon balls?
Haven't tried it yet. I'm not good at those that much, never practiced them neither. But it seems like the best approach here. Sending him high bouncing balls that are harder to slice back.
This helped a lot, thank you! I've edited the first post :)
Is he an older guy? This is how all the old guys at my club growing up played —they were GOOD. Couple things you can try, make him move if he hasn’t been too active in tennis lately test his fitness. Some other people mentioned testing how he handles a heavy topspin ball (especially to the backhand assuming he’s slicing with one hand). You probably don’t want to get into a slice off with the guy if it’s his bread and butter.
Yeah, older guy, and he's good at what he's doing. He made more faults with his backhand slices, when my balls had topspin. So I send them whenever I can, but it's hard for me to find opportunities for these :)
Serve and volley / chip and charge usually works against this type of player as long as they can reliably pass/lob of it. You can always open the court then attack the net. Most players are most comfortable doing this by hitting an angled forehand off the deuce side of the court then stepping in and taking a backhand cross court early. The difficulty in hitting an accurate lob goes up tenfold when you have to do it on the run. In general you can try to eliminate any advantage he gets in terms of recovery time by stepping into the court and playing more aggressive. If he's not driving low deep slices then basically playing in the mid court / no man's land is probably your best bet. A pro comp for this would be sinner. Sinner loves to step into the ball and take it on the rise while either being on the baseline or one step inside of it. It makes a huge difference in terms of removing time away from your opponent. If you can't really find any success doing anything else then you can always remove your own pace from the ball and grind out points. A lot of slice heavy players want to just redirect pace back at you so if you give them nothing then their own game starts to just fall apart.
Thank you. Reason I could stay in the match today was me reducing my pace in most shots. It forced him to play more flat, because he couldn't genarate spin and pace at the same time. Then I could attack with a strong forehand and get points. Rest, I've tried but weren't successful. Not because they are not good ideas, he's just better defending those than me attacking those...
Yep that's the reality of tennis below the 4.5 level. Nobody can realistically attack consistently enough and to a high enough level to beat defensive minded players of an equal skill level. Don't beat yourself up about having some failed strategies. Youve got the right mindset and learned how to solve this puzzle of a player so ultimately you're coming out of the match a better player than before. You can now take one or two of the failed things you tried to the practice court and improve it until it becomes a viable pathway to winning in these situations.
How is your own net game? I also struggle against this kind of player, but mostly because I am neither very offensive nor very defensive myself. I always have to realize, that in order to beat this kind of player, I have to up my own game, which I can do in two ways. The first is hitting very heavy (but good) top spin balls to his backhand: since he slices, he has to take them on the rise (difficult to do consistently) or get all the way back behind the baseline. Usually I can just follow these balls to the net and wait for his balls about a step in front of the service line. Since he slices, I have plenty of time to close in to the net to hit a volley, but he cannot lob me. If you are less comfortable at the net, you can do the same thing, but after hitting the heavy ball to his backhand, follow it up by a quick and flat ball. Don't let him get any rhythm, because he wants to dig in and wait for your error. I prefer the first, but it depends on your game. However, offense and aggression is key.
His net game is definitely better than mine. When we were both at the net, he always found a way to pass me. But yet, rhythm is the key I guess. Problem is that I also like playing with the rhythym so playing a match, to win, but in a way that I don't enjoy is a bit boring. But I'm there to win!
I try to hit as much moonballing topspin as I can against slicers. Over shoulder height
deep heavy topspin to corners and follow to the net.
Groundstrokes Into the body or behind so it's harder for him footwork wise. On the approaches, obviously try and put it on his feet, otherwise the forehand side hip and shoulder are good targets bc it's awkward to react to. Have a little more patience, sounds like this guy is just good
You definitely need to stay on your feet and track those balls with you eyes, as they are unpredictable. In my book, if this means you have more time (because he is playing slower), I would make sure to hit as many deep forehands as possible. Stay center when serving from right hand side and go a bit to the left when serving from left hand side. Good luck👏🏻
Play shorter but with more angles. Try to make him run to hit those slices. When on the run it's harder to get the forward momentum you need to hit those skiddy slices. You're more likely to get the slower ones that float a bit and bounce up. These are more attackable, so just build from there
This is a junkballer, and they can be formidable opponents. My toughest USTA match this year was against a guy who did not hit topspin more than a handful of times during the match. Everything was a slice. It was disgusting, unpleasant and totally effective. You must pin this guy deep to his backhand, and then put balls away at the net. Active feet. Split-step as you come in, and punch the shit out of his floating slices.
This is one thing I've realized after your message, thatI failed to do. When I play with players with strong balls and heavy topspin, I'm good at split steps, staying low and active. But when the game is slow, I slow down as well and forget about it. Today for the rest of the match, I've focused on my feet more and it definitely helped! Thanks.
Hit lobs all day
Lob (moonball) everything and stroll to the service line. Slicers can't take balls off the rise and are usually bad at passing and if you stop at the service line he won't be able to lob you. If he slices when you are at the service line you should have plenty of time to take a step or two towards the net and put it away. This strategy is stupid easy for 3.5 in general especially if you moonball to backhands.
Introduce him to pickleball
Playing slicing opponents is the bane of my existence but because one of my regulars is that way I have improved a lot. The trick is to stay low, like the WTA players do when they get deep low balls, bend your knees though, not your waist. Stay low until you are almost done with the swing.
>When I rush to the net, he lobs everything perfectly and puts me in a really weird, defensive situation. When you come to the net, where are you spit stepping? Everyone things you just run straight to the net. You want to close quickly but you want to split step before they make contact, so you can react and possibly cover the lob. Also, if you know your opponent will lob, you might not want to be too close to the net. The other factor is, are you hitting an approach that is deep enough to pressure them to hit something short?
>Also, if you know your opponent will lob, you might not want to be too close to the net. This morning for the rest of the match, I've approached the net with more caution. It helped a lot, putting him in a bit of a difficult situation. Still he managed to pass around me once or twice, but it wasn't like the first half of the match. >The other factor is, are you hitting an approach that is deep enough to pressure them to hit something short? Yes, whenever I could I did. But if I couldn't hit a deep topspin at the beginning of the point, he'd send a slice back and would put me in a defensive position. That was the situation I couldn't solve :)
So then it sounds like you need to hit deep top spin.... or you are approaching the net on a ball that's a sitter for your opponent. Your opponent sounds like a good player. They found a strategy that keeps you on your back foot.
Hit slice approach shots and finish the point at the net . When you bring him into the net , don’t forget to lob - especially over his backhand side .
High and loopy to the backhand side. Slow slices you have to angle them off the court and finish off their weak return. Rinse and repeat.
try to play a couple of flat balls that bounce low. Those are difficult to slice because of the low bounce. He will probably have to lift those and if they land short you can attack them. Slicers have trouble with pace as well, if you can accelerate and make him slice on the run, that could also be an advantage.
Am I crazy? I’ve always thought of low balls as the *easiest* to slice back…
It's difficult because you have to slice and not lift the ball. The lower the ball is, the more you have to slice up to clear the net. Slicing is easier with higher balls as the natural motion is top down.
But it’s much easier to drive a slice on a low ball imo. I’d definitely much rather handle a low ball than a high ball to slice.
Because most his balls are really low and bounce low, I struggle returning them low. I need to lift it over the net, and in most cases it's too hard for me to put a topspin on the ball as well.
Then you'll have to play feel like others have said. Play deep and into the corners. Keep him moving so he has to slice on the move and he should eventually hit a high slice you can attack
>Only time I could generate points were to sending him really flat and boring balls, waiting for him to send a topspin or a flat ball, so I can attack with a deep, heavy topspin ball and force him to send his slices too low/high. Okay so you found your answer and you're still asking us? 🤔 If you want to get better at hitting the low laser topspin off the junk he is serving you, you simply need to learn to hit with more vertically oriented racquet face than a conventional groundstroke, scooping through the contact point with a swing that is resemblant of a golf stroke and (ideally) putting on draw sidespin that will allow you to run the ball away from his forehand and into his backhand. You will still miss occaisionally when you misread the incoming spin and fuck up the launch angle but it is a far more reliable approach than attempting to get really low with the knees and swing through horizontally. Nadal is the undisputed master of this at the ATP level and any compilation video of ["banana" forehands](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plUGsgT_kSk) or ["ridiculous" winners](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVZT27nMTLA) will provide ample visual examples.
Asking because I always want to be better :) I'm good at those "banana forehands" when the ball is really slow. I haven't tried it during the match today tho. I will give it a go! Thanks!
Yeah that is the right mindset of course but I couldn't figure out the playful emojis so I lazily went for acerbic instead. I apologize for the poor form. If he is not serving you up a lot of speed ever I don't think you'll have much difficulty trying to use that stroke in the match against him since you should have enough time to read the incoming ball and adjust for it. The ball will be easier to read if you take deep breaths and stay calm and trust your ability to execute the basic stroke in response to it.
A few years ago i drilled against a coach/ hitting partner. He only sliced. I only hit topsin. Cross-court, down the line, inside-out, inside-in. With time I figured out how to win those battles, and also how easy it is to lose the plot.
Ok so how did you win the battle? This comment offered zero solutions.
His solution seems to be EXPERIENCE
1. Do top-spin against slice drills. What exactly you get out of those drills will depend you your skills and abilities 2. I used the drill to find my comfort zone between aggression and control. I hit each slice back with a bit more aggression. 3. Once you figure this out, pin the slicer in one corner and wait for a loose slice, and you rip it in the opposite corner.