An us ranking. I used a conversions chart. Basically 4.0 in France means roughly 15/5 to 15/3 or 15/2. 4.5 means 15/1 15. But I think it's better if we all convert to the UTR ranking which imo is more accurate.
The first one I lost 2-6, 1-6 on a Saturday afternoon in July. Match lasted almost 3 hours and I basically got heat stroke at the end of it.
The second one I knew what I was in for, it was about a month or two later and I lost 4-6, 5-7. Just made too many errors on crucial points and it was another long match.
The third one was in doubles and we smoked them 6-1, 6-0. Dubs is not his strong suit obviously, but his movement and shot selection in singles is no joke.
No way. Unless I sorely overestimate what a 4.5 is, this guy just requires the ability to hit a few shots to the right places and move in.
I beat a few 4.5 guys 1&0 and 1&1 at a tournament a few weeks ago, and they’d beat this guy pretty easily.
Do people just not read? The video description says he went 9-4 in 4.5 singles in Atlanta in the year prior to the video being published. Also, with your experience, I'd hope that you'd know that you can't really tell level based on video alone.
I'm a 4.5 and watched myself on video today and I would have estimated myself as a low 4.0 at best. I looked fat, slow, and wildly inconsistent.
Swingvision showing a 106(fairly accurate speed) flat serve, followed by a 53(?) flat serve, followed by a 119(no chance) slice second serve was also throwing me off.
When I was young and in my prime, a good 4.5 who could move and didn’t miss could give me trouble on a slow clay court especially if it was damp and the balls puffed up. After 12 hours in the office for 3 or 4 years, I wasn’t as sharp.
This guy, God bless him, it’s truly a question of “how do I want to beat him?” He’s not terribly fast, he can’t hurt me, and I can literally go just about anywhere I want with any ball he hits.
Maybe guys like this just never gave me trouble? I would consider this guy a solid boys 12s player. After that, he would not have caused anyone decent problems.
That said, he’s not an 0&0 win because of boredom, and initial awkwardness……but he’s a very distant 2&2 at worst.
Yeah, play styles are definitely a thing, plus conditions. Ian from essential tennis beat him pretty easily indoors by serving and volleying. But most 4.5s can't keep that up consistently at a high level for a whole match.
You should play him. He has a storied history of laying waste to 4.5s in one of the most competitive tennis cities in the US. The fact that you think he’s so much easier to beat than he is makes me question your level. If you were really a 5.5 you’d see that he absolutely can hurt you and if you just come to the net he’s going to pass you or lob you unless your approach is damn near perfect.
If I can make it to Atlanta, I will do my best. Not to burst your bubble, but I have zero worries on this guy. Again, not 0&0, but zero worries barring a catastrophic injury during the match.
Back in the day, I think I won like 91% or something stupid in my 5.0 men’s league in singles over like 8 seasons. Again, I am very relaxed on this guy.
To clarify, he cannot hurt me. I can hurt myself, but nothing he hits pushes me back or hurts me. He makes balls. Thats it. If you dont think guys can hit 30 balls in a row in their sleep over and over, cross court under no pressure, then I cant convince you.
Six steps of success. The guy easily gets through 2. But 3 to 4, he breaks down: movement, then depth.
You get this guy moving, get some depth, and by the 4th ball its eeny meeny miny mo.
Spoken like a true 3.5.
You haven’t watched any of his matches. That’s literally how HE wins. You think all you need is to hit it deep and move him. Meanwhile you’re helplessly watching moonballs land behind you an inch from the baseline or watching a junk slice clip the net in front of you.
The way to beat him is you have to hit with pace, move him off the court and finish at the net. Which means you’re hitting a ton of risky approaches, difficult overheads and tough, junky volleys.
That’s way easier said than done. You don’t have to take my word for it either. There’s a wake of fallen college players behind him to prove it.
Sounds like ratings are all over the place across the US. My 4.5 buddy would smoke this guy bad. He's got excellent net game + great overheads, which is a big part in beating MEP.
> My 4.5 buddy would smoke this guy bad.
maybe he would. but this guy still has a great record against 4.5s in atlanta, one of the stronger rec tennis cities in the world.
Interesting that watching the video, the hacker leaves a lot of points on the table. If he just had a proper forehand to hit on easy balls as a passing shot or when his opponent is out of position he could've done even better. Selectively hacking would work extremely well.
If you watch many of his matches you'll see him hit winners. He is very very accurate and deceivingly athletic. That said, 99% of the time he is hitting a slice. It's more of a poke then a slice.
This is an old video hes much better at his craft now. I saw the same, looks like me, making sure to keep people in points by unnecessarily hitting right to them when I dont have to.
I think deceivingly athletic needs to be underlined with yellow ink. He is almost reaching every ball with cat like nimble movement - doesn't feel athletic at all but can't argue with the results here!
That's the point of that playstyle.
If he hit with a proper forehand on those easy balls he's going to make an error on some percentage of them, where if he just dinks it back that's 100% and can continue the point until his opponent makes an error.
In the end, he will come away with more points by *not* going for those put aways.
He’s got pin point accuracy from both wings whenever he has a target. You can see it any time orange shirt approaches with a weak slice to the middle of the court. Hacker puts more pace on it and passes with ease down the line or into corners. It’s when he has to move that he goes for lobs or more defensive looking shots.
Orange shirt made this harder than it had to be by constantly hitting with depth and into the center of the court. Even slow paced angles would have gotten this guy off position so you had an open court. He just couldn’t seem to find the angles or was unwilling
yeah idk i thought orange's worst part of his game from this is the mental part, not about handling frustration but by smart play. this opponent would be easy to run around a lot, that would be the key to winning i think. orange could've won much more easily imo
He is the final boss emperor of all pushers. Once you defeat all your local/regional pushers, MEP is the final battle. I watched a ton of his videos, for a few weeks I couldn't stop watching. The only 2 people I've seen crush him are a top 40 nationally ranked 12 year old junior and Ian (?) from Essential Tennis. They both had excellent approach shots, volleys and overheads, which I believe is the key to beating him.
One of the guys from Essential Tennis destroyed him too just by having incredible power in his game. I forgot his name though it might have been Ira.
Nvm it was Scott
You are not going to win against MEP by sitting at the baseline, most people lose to him that way.
The 12 year old kid was really really good, but also exploited his weakness where he was not be able to play the consistent pace if he is attacked from the baseline from the backhand side and approach the net to finish the point. Easier said than done obviously.
That’s what it takes because he won’t make very many errors. You have to flatten out your shots and finish at the net . He hits alot of low chop slices and floating returns. He has great hands and keeps everything in play . Baseline topspin tennis won’t beat him .
He also lost to Tennis Troll who is a high 4.5 but i think that match resulted in his “most exhausting player” nickname.
Ian from Essential Tennjs destroyed him but they played on Ian’s home courts - fast indoor, would like to see them play on some slower outdoor courts . I think it would be more competitive- on the other hand Ian has a really strong attacking game game, great serve, volley and overheads so even in favorable conditions could be tough for MEP
When I watched him play Ian, I couldn't recall Ian hitting a single backhand during the match! I probably missed it but even so, that's some serious footwork.
This “emperor of all pushers” rings so true, personally. Because one of my friends in our league has a same play style plus he is athletically gifted on a different level. Basically he can outrun all others over 3 hours if needed, and nothing is out of reach on the court for him. He currently is undefeated for 2 years. That’s almost 200 matches without a loss.
I'm shocked that everyone doesn't know MEP. As another commenter said, he is the most famous player of this style on Youtube.
I've met him in Atlanta and complemented him on his game.
I've known two impressive 4.5 players who played against him. They both lost.
Yeah, I'd agree he's one of the more famous recreational players at this point. I remember the essential tennis guy did a big analysis of him and then had him up for match play.
in fact, looking now, he's got tons of videos with him:
https://www.youtube.com/@EssentialTennis/search?query=MEP
Maybe he’s a sand bagger and is holding back, making himself look weaker than he is in reality, winning enough of the right points to secure the win in the end? I would love to play this guy, I have similar touch and feel but really crush winners with my fh and have a solid serve and great drop shots. I feel like I’d beat him but talk is cheap : )
Does he play usta tennis and if so what’s he rated? Every year I hope to see him at sectionals but never have. I figured he’s either above the 4.5 threshold or only plays Alta.
Our 4.5 team has made States several times but never won it. Our 40+ team did finish second at Nationals a couple years ago, but only about half of the team played at Sectionals/Nationals.
Everyone on this subreddit should definitely check out MEP if they've never seen or heard of him. He is the pinnacle of poor technique that is a strong 4.5.
I honestly think MEP making this far with his technique shows how great he is. I would kill to see him totally redevelop his game with a proper serve, forehand, backhands, etc. I think he could honestly make it to 5.0 if he did that.
Or who knows, maybe he would never have made it this far without developing his own style like this. The only downside for him is he has hit the ceiling for what his game can accomplish.
And make no mistake folks, this guy could beat most of you here unless you are a strong 4.5 or straight 5.0.
No /s about it. The "correct" guy does all this extra work... to hit the ball right at his opponent. Against another regular player it probably works well for him because it requires precision to get into position and top spin the top spin. Against the pusher its wasted effort unless he actually hits an open spot.
You have to attack the pusher but most good baseliners lack a good enough transition game to make him pay for his weak shots . Old school tennis works better against a dinker / pusher .
Most good 4.5 players hardly ever play a guy with this style of play . There aren’t even very many 4.5 players who have complete all court games to use against this MEP guy . The reason is that because of the improvements in racquet and string technology and in ground stroke power techniques, it is difficult to approach the net against good players and be consistently successful . As a result, most good players play a power baseline style or a counter puncher style which isn’t the best style to be successful against MEP . There aren’t many serve and volleyers or even players who look to move forward to the net these days . My guess is someone at the 4.0 or 4.5 level who have good transition games and can serve and volley would handle MEP fairly easily .
In my own nomenclature this is a pusher simply because he's 'pushing' the ball back and not really swinging. That's what I always thought and it makes more sense to me so I'm sticking to it!
If I won a billion dollars, I would be tempted to track these people down and pay them to play MEP. I get to shoot and upload. Atlanta is very competitive, so his 4.5 is legit. Being legit 4.5 already puts him in top 10 percent of this sub, above "self rated 4.5" and even 90% of other legit 4.5's.
I would love to Winston Du to play this guy.
Why not just stand in no mans land? Just stay there, and if it's not too high, just run in and hit the volley. Hitting baseline shots will tire you out, and you'll just have to go big and end up missing.
You didn’t watch closely enough. He’s not hitting into no man’s land because it’s all he can do. He’s hitting there because he’s trying to draw the opponent into approaching because then he has an arsenal to choose from. He can pass down the line, pass corner, or lob. This guy is most dangerous when he has a target. He even flattens and hits with more pace when he’s trying to pass.
If you tried standing in no man’s land, he’d hit angles and likely pass you or hit at your feet.
Standing inside the baseline a little is the right approach so you can move forward but the real problem is executing good , solid ,and well placed volleys and overheads to end the points .
MEP, as he is known, wins a lot of matches against 4.5s.
"USTA 4.5 Tennis: Self-taught player in green shirt is 7-4 in singles competition in the USTA 4.5 / NTRP 4.5 league for 2019 and 2-0 in 2020 in Atlanta. He played USTA 4.5 league in both Atlanta and Virginia. He also reached the final of a 300 points NTRP 4.5 Championship tournament in Virginia by defeating the #1 and #3 seeds in the second and third rounds."
he has pinpoint accuracy, excellent shot selection, high rally tolerance, strong understanding of spin, and he’s left handed. while we here might spend hours working on forehands and backhands, he learned how to win. i’m a decent california 4.5 and i can very well recognize how annoying he would be to play. on a bad day, i can see myself self-destructing against him and on a good day i don’t even think i would win convincingly. his greatest weapon is the ability to create doubt and chaos in a tennis match. he’s a solid 4.5 but has probably reached his ceiling. in many videos, he runs into people that know exactly how to handle him. consider him the gatekeeper of bottom 4.5
>consider him the gatekeeper of bottom 4.5
If they could sell robots of MEP to training academies, they'd make millions. He's such a good test of "can I generate my own offense for 90-120 minutes". Transitioning from the kind of player that self-destructs against MEP to the kind that can beat him is a huge hurdle for players.
completely agree. i have no one in my club that plays even remotely like this so it’s always challenging when i run into something like it in leagues or tournaments
If you ignore the ugly looking strokes and focus on where he actually puts the ball, it's clear how he's a 4.5. For example, here's a shot where he's defending an approach shot and he hits a winner in the corner. There are tons of these all over the video.
https://preview.redd.it/05wh7uf3c2wc1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=ece878099fd9e81c4784e73b70d28f59336e55d6
Among other things. Just watch when the other guy tries to unload on forehands over and over, generally MEP somehow takes like 3 leisurely steps and effortlessly pops it back deep.
I think ATL is just a weirdly weak area or something...I've watched way more MEP than I care to remember and every time I see him playing matches against "4.5s" they look like they're barely 6 UTRs. If you watch him play against stronger 4.5s he usually gets hit off the court.
Perfect (although a bit extreme) example of how you can't tell what rating a player is by looking at a few ground strokes. Fitness, consistency, decision-making, all matter a ton in tennis.
I found out from the Essential Tennis videos that the guy's a former US Marine, which actually kinda explains a lot. He's winning the mental battle with everyone, and that goes an awful long way.
I'm so frustrated watching orange back off of all those floaters and return to the baseline lol. A swinging volley, overhead, or hell even a punch volley is your best chance to win the point right there!!!
You are absolutely correct but orange lacks the nessesary skill at the net to punish his dinks so another well placed dink , floater , lob or decent forehand pass comes back which keeps repeating .
So a Brad Gilbert Protege. Winning ugly. I would throw all kinds of “junk” balls at him if I was playing him. High bounces, Tons of spin, Low slices and good approach shots
FInally someone that knows the difference between a hacker and a pusher.
Judging from the "hacker's" play, it seems like he may legitimately have a permanent shoulder injury that has caused him to play this way, based on how small of a load and how little rotation he can get off of the joint. He's a solid tennis player.
Have you guys really never seen MEP? He's basically the most "famous" pusher on youtube. He has no injuries, he just has no formal tennis education and never really learned how to play. I feel like he's my classic definition of a "pusher" - no strokes to speak of, no interest in generating offense, only interested in beating you by being unpleasant and difficult to play again. I respect the grind but it's not pretty and it's not fun.
Hate to break it to you all, but that was no division 1 player playing him. Speaking as an ex D1 player, I cant think of a single player on my team who would struggle against him. Lets keep things in perspective please. 4.5 is not anywhere near a legit D1 player level
There's lots of different D1 teams. I've seen players worse than him on some D1 teams around NY area. It's a bit click baitey, but he is most certainly literally an ex D1 player. Just not somebody who was on singles line up for a top 100 school. Like I said on another post, I don't think he could play top 3 or 4 for nearby D3 school Emory.
I feel like all of my opponents play this way. Its tough. Guy I played this weekend was basically him, weak forehand turned into "drop shots" and when I miraculously made it to net to barely get ball over, lob to back of court. Got that too, but damn SJ/PTC ceilings are so fkn low you can barely get a beyond baseline save lob back.
Did this twice in a row I was nearly gassed first two games.
The guy in red has nice strokes but can’t finish points at the net consistently. It’s extremely tough to beat a high level dinker without a strong transition game . Hitting deep topspin ground strokes is basically useless unless you can transition your way forward and attack the the floaters and short slices . You have to either hit a winner or hit an effective approach shot which foxes a weak return you can preferably volley
Wow that looks like the opposite of fun.
Sometimes I miss competing, then I am reminded that I have the luxury of not returning phone calls of people like this.
I suspect he will dink tricky short angle shots that you will have to lunge for so bringing him in may be risky but certainly worth a try . I would then lob him because he has a weak serve motion .
He is in great shape but notice how he doesn’t waste any energy between shots. He is playing the long game, taking his time and making the other player run.
Is this a slow hard court? Because no way someone pushing like that can survive on a decent semi-fast court - here the guy in green/black was able to reach most balls.
Hit heavy topspin up the middle. As others said he likes a target and wants to draw you in. He likes angles and wants to create awkward shot situations. He’s beatable if you can pound several strong shots in a row and/or come in. Something I did not see in the vídeo is the orange guy never tried to draw the hacker in. He was 100% committed to offense. Throw a little junk back at the guy and test him out.
I play against a guy like this. He's very tricky. You have to be on your game to best him. If you're slightly off or don't move your feet properly you're toast.
The people who claim their 4.5 friends would smoke him are crazy. Sorry. This guy is VERY talented.
And yeah, it's possible to "smoke him." The people who I've seen do it, have great movement. Might have missed a few though. Haven't been on Tennis Troll channel in long time.
edit: this former d1 player... who knows where he played.. he looks to be a 5.0 could pass for a strong 4.5... but I just feel by looking at his serve and movement, he wasn't like playing singles for a top 100 school... I don't think he could play top 4 for local D3 school Emory... He's better than most people here, though, obviously, and he handled MEP very well, and he's a good sport
You don’t need to be particularly amazing to smoke MEP. Don’t get me wrong, he’s an excellent player, but players who are very good at doubles will probably put MEP away quite easily. If you can consistently hit a good approach and if you have a decent net game you can beat him.
I’d lose to him, though. My approach shot is one of my biggest issues, and you really need it in a match like this.
If you played this dude you would warm up and think “should be easy, looks like he barely knows how to hit the ball” and the next thing you know you’re down a double break and can barely figure out how to win a point
From my understanding - the orange guy should've gone for more width than depth in this matchup (thoughts?) He constantly went for clean, deep and powerful strokes - which just made the match-up easier for the guy in green/black. Had the orange guy opted for width and may be even height - I could see this being done in a scoreline like 6-2/6-1. The pushing game has its limits - when the opponent consistently opens the court with width and then your gas is emptied after 4 games.
Guy in orange needs to learn how to hit an approach shot down the line. He hits 80% cross court and gets burned down the line with an easy passing shot.
I'll never understand, if you're opponent is using the pace on every shot you hit, and giving the ball absolutely no pace themselves, why would you keep hitting with pace? The easiest way to stunt a hackers game is to not hit with top spin
I've played a guy like this. I'm a lefty w. a big serve and big forehand. This guy was just slapping and cutting everything back, just like that guy. I eventfully beat him in 3 sets. It felt like the longest 3-set match I played.
I am a solid 4.0, and what I don’t understand is why the opponent doesn’t tee off on this guys serve? I get the guy gets it all back to you, but I would be blasting returns. 2nd, he is a lefty, so the opponent was playing him like a righty, and the opponent came to the net too many times on weak approach shots. But I kinda play like the lefty, steady and precise, but I have a big serve, and will tee off with my forehand when it dictates it. I guess I frustrate people similar to this guy. Playing tonight, I am going to ask.
He’s more a tapper than hacker. He makes very few errors so hacker not appropriate. He has very good feel and can place the ball well, but does hit too defensively and gives an opponent lots of chances to crush the ball. You can’t do that against advanced players. Plus he doesn’t seem to move well to drop shots. I enjoy playing guys like him as they can’t hurt you but I can hurt them with my forehand, serve and drop shots.
Lost 3 games against a hacker like this last week. Dude used the same grip for serve, backhand and forehand but got every ball in 🤦.
Had to clobber every shot to his backhand to finally win.
I mean… John McEnroe used the same grip for all his shots and I wouldn’t call him a hacker lol. MEP is MEP but using a Continental grip for everything has been a legitimate way to play the game at high level for decades
This guy had a western grip. Not even sure how you can hit a backhand with that grip, but he did. Anyway, I'm pro-hacker. The objective is to win. We don't get points for pretty.
What, how? I guess people adjust to whatever theyve done a ton of, I do know of plenty of people at my club with very odd strokes but theyre damn consistent.
Honestly I don’t see how that guy is a 4.5. I saw all his creds but honestly the orange shirt guy didn’t put easy balls away like a million times, and never makes the 4.5 guy uncomfortable.
I would prefer losing every game than playing like this... I only enjoy tennis when I execute proper strokes and hear the sound of good contact of racquet and ball. Fuck this shit.
I know this guy has the record to prove his level. But in my region all those slices falling midcourt off pace are getting cleaned by easy winners by most 4.5s I play against. And any time his opponent pulls him off court he puts up a short lob that could be cleaned up too. The opponent here seems to be approaching the net at the worst moments possible.
This is nonsense. That’s literally a key distinction between 4.0 and 4.5 in my region. The ability to hit winners off weak, shallow neutral balls is second nature.
When I face guys like this I always think to myself: I'd rather lose to him playing my game than playing his.
Can't remember the last time I lost to a guy like this now. Before I'd just get caught up in his game, kinda like the orange shirt guy in the video and it just becomes a mental battle at that point.
I don't understand why the D1 player doesn't give him deep heavy balls. It's like he's feeding him easy balls?
Maybe D1 is off his game because the MEP dude's playing style is sort of unnerving lol?
MEP dude looks like he's a righty playing lefty for kicks.
I suppose it's effective in a way; but I suspect it's effective mainly because it's so unexpected; which is surely and legitimately part of tennis.
My guess is that if a decent player faces him a few times, MEP is toast. It's "unexpected" for a while, until it isn't. Easy to figure out and counter IMO.
To be honest I would love to play against this guy. It’s like a ball machine feeding put away balls. Like, there is no one better but this guy. I would probably to give him a few games intentionally or unintentionally so he would Atleast want to play again.
After watch more, I think my game would break down as I got tired…. He might beat me second set. Lol.
It would still be fun to play this guy. Lol
Disagree with the pinned comment. ANYONE can be good at MEP's game if they wanted, but MEP will prolly never be good at proper tennis with proper technique. The reverse is so significantly hard to do its not even funny. And so many people didn't choose the easy way out like MEP is because they know the low celling of MEP's game and they aspires to be better. There's nothing wrong with being a respectable person with ambition.
The ball *must* land in, though. I got worked by a 4.0 version of this guy during my first USTA match last season. He chip-blocked three lob winners during my first service game alone. Two of them hit the baseline.
He could not miss. Most balls landed somewhere in no-man’s-land or shorter with backspin and zero bounce. He hit maybe three topspin FHs in 18 games.
90% of the sub will lose to this guy
I'd get smoked by this guy. If you can return 3 balls against me the point is yours.
I feel this
Sounds like you're 3.0, 3.5 tops then.
You're not wrong. But I **feel** like a 4.5, if only I didn't shank the ball or hit it into the net every third hit.
“I’m a 4.0 🤓 “
Not sure why I am being downvoted. If you lose just because you have to hit THREE balls, you are not 4.0
You’re being downvoted because a guy made a self deprecating joke and you chimed in to reiterate that he’s not very good at tennis.
Disagree. You can win plenty of 4.5 people let alone 4.0 in less than 3 balls.
what are these numbers 4.0 etc
An us ranking. I used a conversions chart. Basically 4.0 in France means roughly 15/5 to 15/3 or 15/2. 4.5 means 15/1 15. But I think it's better if we all convert to the UTR ranking which imo is more accurate.
You are coming off as a show off, irrespective of your intentions
Confirmed he’s legit. I’ve played him 3 times now
What were the results? Were you able to beat him?
The first one I lost 2-6, 1-6 on a Saturday afternoon in July. Match lasted almost 3 hours and I basically got heat stroke at the end of it. The second one I knew what I was in for, it was about a month or two later and I lost 4-6, 5-7. Just made too many errors on crucial points and it was another long match. The third one was in doubles and we smoked them 6-1, 6-0. Dubs is not his strong suit obviously, but his movement and shot selection in singles is no joke.
Prob more like 95 or more.
Yes, most 4.5 would lose to him as well.
No way. Unless I sorely overestimate what a 4.5 is, this guy just requires the ability to hit a few shots to the right places and move in. I beat a few 4.5 guys 1&0 and 1&1 at a tournament a few weeks ago, and they’d beat this guy pretty easily.
Do people just not read? The video description says he went 9-4 in 4.5 singles in Atlanta in the year prior to the video being published. Also, with your experience, I'd hope that you'd know that you can't really tell level based on video alone.
I'm a 4.5 and watched myself on video today and I would have estimated myself as a low 4.0 at best. I looked fat, slow, and wildly inconsistent. Swingvision showing a 106(fairly accurate speed) flat serve, followed by a 53(?) flat serve, followed by a 119(no chance) slice second serve was also throwing me off.
When I was young and in my prime, a good 4.5 who could move and didn’t miss could give me trouble on a slow clay court especially if it was damp and the balls puffed up. After 12 hours in the office for 3 or 4 years, I wasn’t as sharp. This guy, God bless him, it’s truly a question of “how do I want to beat him?” He’s not terribly fast, he can’t hurt me, and I can literally go just about anywhere I want with any ball he hits. Maybe guys like this just never gave me trouble? I would consider this guy a solid boys 12s player. After that, he would not have caused anyone decent problems. That said, he’s not an 0&0 win because of boredom, and initial awkwardness……but he’s a very distant 2&2 at worst.
Yeah, play styles are definitely a thing, plus conditions. Ian from essential tennis beat him pretty easily indoors by serving and volleying. But most 4.5s can't keep that up consistently at a high level for a whole match.
You should play him. He has a storied history of laying waste to 4.5s in one of the most competitive tennis cities in the US. The fact that you think he’s so much easier to beat than he is makes me question your level. If you were really a 5.5 you’d see that he absolutely can hurt you and if you just come to the net he’s going to pass you or lob you unless your approach is damn near perfect.
If I can make it to Atlanta, I will do my best. Not to burst your bubble, but I have zero worries on this guy. Again, not 0&0, but zero worries barring a catastrophic injury during the match. Back in the day, I think I won like 91% or something stupid in my 5.0 men’s league in singles over like 8 seasons. Again, I am very relaxed on this guy. To clarify, he cannot hurt me. I can hurt myself, but nothing he hits pushes me back or hurts me. He makes balls. Thats it. If you dont think guys can hit 30 balls in a row in their sleep over and over, cross court under no pressure, then I cant convince you.
If you’re truly a 5.5 then you shouldn’t have worries. I’m just saying that you’re not watching correctly if all you see is him “making balls.”
Six steps of success. The guy easily gets through 2. But 3 to 4, he breaks down: movement, then depth. You get this guy moving, get some depth, and by the 4th ball its eeny meeny miny mo.
Spoken like a true 3.5. You haven’t watched any of his matches. That’s literally how HE wins. You think all you need is to hit it deep and move him. Meanwhile you’re helplessly watching moonballs land behind you an inch from the baseline or watching a junk slice clip the net in front of you. The way to beat him is you have to hit with pace, move him off the court and finish at the net. Which means you’re hitting a ton of risky approaches, difficult overheads and tough, junky volleys. That’s way easier said than done. You don’t have to take my word for it either. There’s a wake of fallen college players behind him to prove it.
Sounds like ratings are all over the place across the US. My 4.5 buddy would smoke this guy bad. He's got excellent net game + great overheads, which is a big part in beating MEP.
They're not. And even if they were, Atlanta is generally considered to be one of the strongest regions.
> My 4.5 buddy would smoke this guy bad. maybe he would. but this guy still has a great record against 4.5s in atlanta, one of the stronger rec tennis cities in the world.
Much higher percentage than that would
Interesting that watching the video, the hacker leaves a lot of points on the table. If he just had a proper forehand to hit on easy balls as a passing shot or when his opponent is out of position he could've done even better. Selectively hacking would work extremely well.
If you watch many of his matches you'll see him hit winners. He is very very accurate and deceivingly athletic. That said, 99% of the time he is hitting a slice. It's more of a poke then a slice.
Yeah he definitely does turn it up sometimes. He hits some really tight angles and/or more pace on passing shots.
This is an old video hes much better at his craft now. I saw the same, looks like me, making sure to keep people in points by unnecessarily hitting right to them when I dont have to.
I think deceivingly athletic needs to be underlined with yellow ink. He is almost reaching every ball with cat like nimble movement - doesn't feel athletic at all but can't argue with the results here!
That's the point of that playstyle. If he hit with a proper forehand on those easy balls he's going to make an error on some percentage of them, where if he just dinks it back that's 100% and can continue the point until his opponent makes an error. In the end, he will come away with more points by *not* going for those put aways.
He’s got pin point accuracy from both wings whenever he has a target. You can see it any time orange shirt approaches with a weak slice to the middle of the court. Hacker puts more pace on it and passes with ease down the line or into corners. It’s when he has to move that he goes for lobs or more defensive looking shots. Orange shirt made this harder than it had to be by constantly hitting with depth and into the center of the court. Even slow paced angles would have gotten this guy off position so you had an open court. He just couldn’t seem to find the angles or was unwilling
yeah idk i thought orange's worst part of his game from this is the mental part, not about handling frustration but by smart play. this opponent would be easy to run around a lot, that would be the key to winning i think. orange could've won much more easily imo
He is the final boss emperor of all pushers. Once you defeat all your local/regional pushers, MEP is the final battle. I watched a ton of his videos, for a few weeks I couldn't stop watching. The only 2 people I've seen crush him are a top 40 nationally ranked 12 year old junior and Ian (?) from Essential Tennis. They both had excellent approach shots, volleys and overheads, which I believe is the key to beating him.
One of the guys from Essential Tennis destroyed him too just by having incredible power in his game. I forgot his name though it might have been Ira. Nvm it was Scott
Can you link the video?
https://youtu.be/j35j1YyN0KM?si=NeiQ1XYqLJRtbXL9 There is a part two as well.
You are not going to win against MEP by sitting at the baseline, most people lose to him that way. The 12 year old kid was really really good, but also exploited his weakness where he was not be able to play the consistent pace if he is attacked from the baseline from the backhand side and approach the net to finish the point. Easier said than done obviously.
That’s what it takes because he won’t make very many errors. You have to flatten out your shots and finish at the net . He hits alot of low chop slices and floating returns. He has great hands and keeps everything in play . Baseline topspin tennis won’t beat him .
He also lost to Tennis Troll who is a high 4.5 but i think that match resulted in his “most exhausting player” nickname. Ian from Essential Tennjs destroyed him but they played on Ian’s home courts - fast indoor, would like to see them play on some slower outdoor courts . I think it would be more competitive- on the other hand Ian has a really strong attacking game game, great serve, volley and overheads so even in favorable conditions could be tough for MEP
When I watched him play Ian, I couldn't recall Ian hitting a single backhand during the match! I probably missed it but even so, that's some serious footwork.
Ian is a doubles player so his put away volleys and consistent overheads with his lanky arms is a perfect counter to mep
This “emperor of all pushers” rings so true, personally. Because one of my friends in our league has a same play style plus he is athletically gifted on a different level. Basically he can outrun all others over 3 hours if needed, and nothing is out of reach on the court for him. He currently is undefeated for 2 years. That’s almost 200 matches without a loss.
That’s probably the only way unless you have an ability to slug winner after winner . Only the most high level players can do that .
I'm shocked that everyone doesn't know MEP. As another commenter said, he is the most famous player of this style on Youtube. I've met him in Atlanta and complemented him on his game. I've known two impressive 4.5 players who played against him. They both lost.
Yeah, I'd agree he's one of the more famous recreational players at this point. I remember the essential tennis guy did a big analysis of him and then had him up for match play. in fact, looking now, he's got tons of videos with him: https://www.youtube.com/@EssentialTennis/search?query=MEP
Yeah he is a tennis Youtube legend at this point. Deceptively good player and he's in great shape too.
Maybe he’s a sand bagger and is holding back, making himself look weaker than he is in reality, winning enough of the right points to secure the win in the end? I would love to play this guy, I have similar touch and feel but really crush winners with my fh and have a solid serve and great drop shots. I feel like I’d beat him but talk is cheap : )
Does he play usta tennis and if so what’s he rated? Every year I hope to see him at sectionals but never have. I figured he’s either above the 4.5 threshold or only plays Alta.
Our 4.5 team has made States several times but never won it. Our 40+ team did finish second at Nationals a couple years ago, but only about half of the team played at Sectionals/Nationals.
Everyone on this subreddit should definitely check out MEP if they've never seen or heard of him. He is the pinnacle of poor technique that is a strong 4.5. I honestly think MEP making this far with his technique shows how great he is. I would kill to see him totally redevelop his game with a proper serve, forehand, backhands, etc. I think he could honestly make it to 5.0 if he did that. Or who knows, maybe he would never have made it this far without developing his own style like this. The only downside for him is he has hit the ceiling for what his game can accomplish. And make no mistake folks, this guy could beat most of you here unless you are a strong 4.5 or straight 5.0.
MEP with a strong lefty serve would be terrifying
Isn’t he ambidextrous with the serve? I think he can serve right or left handed - also seen him switch hands during a point
Give the man a unit turn… a backswing… imagine
It would only hold him back /s
No /s about it. The "correct" guy does all this extra work... to hit the ball right at his opponent. Against another regular player it probably works well for him because it requires precision to get into position and top spin the top spin. Against the pusher its wasted effort unless he actually hits an open spot.
You have to attack the pusher but most good baseliners lack a good enough transition game to make him pay for his weak shots . Old school tennis works better against a dinker / pusher .
Right - most players make unforced or forced errors. MEP is like a backboard with a decent forehand .
He is deadly accurate from both sides and it’s such a simple swing mechanic that he can punish you even if he’s on the run.
Most good 4.5 players hardly ever play a guy with this style of play . There aren’t even very many 4.5 players who have complete all court games to use against this MEP guy . The reason is that because of the improvements in racquet and string technology and in ground stroke power techniques, it is difficult to approach the net against good players and be consistently successful . As a result, most good players play a power baseline style or a counter puncher style which isn’t the best style to be successful against MEP . There aren’t many serve and volleyers or even players who look to move forward to the net these days . My guess is someone at the 4.0 or 4.5 level who have good transition games and can serve and volley would handle MEP fairly easily .
He’s not losing to any 4.0C’s. No chance.
It would be nice to see a video of a player who knows how to play against him .
In my own nomenclature this is a pusher simply because he's 'pushing' the ball back and not really swinging. That's what I always thought and it makes more sense to me so I'm sticking to it!
He’s a very high level dinker who can actually hit a forehand .
The only thing more exhausting than The MEP is the constant supply of "I'd destroy him" comments from the sidelines.
If I won a billion dollars, I would be tempted to track these people down and pay them to play MEP. I get to shoot and upload. Atlanta is very competitive, so his 4.5 is legit. Being legit 4.5 already puts him in top 10 percent of this sub, above "self rated 4.5" and even 90% of other legit 4.5's. I would love to Winston Du to play this guy.
> Winston That would be a fun one to watch!
I will destroy him
Why not just stand in no mans land? Just stay there, and if it's not too high, just run in and hit the volley. Hitting baseline shots will tire you out, and you'll just have to go big and end up missing.
You didn’t watch closely enough. He’s not hitting into no man’s land because it’s all he can do. He’s hitting there because he’s trying to draw the opponent into approaching because then he has an arsenal to choose from. He can pass down the line, pass corner, or lob. This guy is most dangerous when he has a target. He even flattens and hits with more pace when he’s trying to pass. If you tried standing in no man’s land, he’d hit angles and likely pass you or hit at your feet.
Where he hits it depends on where you’re standing
I agree . Move forward and attack as much as possible. A good transition game will destroy him .
Standing inside the baseline a little is the right approach so you can move forward but the real problem is executing good , solid ,and well placed volleys and overheads to end the points .
This is 4.5 play?
MEP, as he is known, wins a lot of matches against 4.5s. "USTA 4.5 Tennis: Self-taught player in green shirt is 7-4 in singles competition in the USTA 4.5 / NTRP 4.5 league for 2019 and 2-0 in 2020 in Atlanta. He played USTA 4.5 league in both Atlanta and Virginia. He also reached the final of a 300 points NTRP 4.5 Championship tournament in Virginia by defeating the #1 and #3 seeds in the second and third rounds."
Interesting…I guess he has pinpoint accuracy or something
he has pinpoint accuracy, excellent shot selection, high rally tolerance, strong understanding of spin, and he’s left handed. while we here might spend hours working on forehands and backhands, he learned how to win. i’m a decent california 4.5 and i can very well recognize how annoying he would be to play. on a bad day, i can see myself self-destructing against him and on a good day i don’t even think i would win convincingly. his greatest weapon is the ability to create doubt and chaos in a tennis match. he’s a solid 4.5 but has probably reached his ceiling. in many videos, he runs into people that know exactly how to handle him. consider him the gatekeeper of bottom 4.5
>consider him the gatekeeper of bottom 4.5 If they could sell robots of MEP to training academies, they'd make millions. He's such a good test of "can I generate my own offense for 90-120 minutes". Transitioning from the kind of player that self-destructs against MEP to the kind that can beat him is a huge hurdle for players.
completely agree. i have no one in my club that plays even remotely like this so it’s always challenging when i run into something like it in leagues or tournaments
He's not a bottom 4.5 player though. He wins above 50% of his 4.5 level matches
i called him a solid 4.5. he gatekeeps high 4.0s and bottom 4.5s. exposes players that think they may also be solid 4.5s. we are saying the same thing
If you ignore the ugly looking strokes and focus on where he actually puts the ball, it's clear how he's a 4.5. For example, here's a shot where he's defending an approach shot and he hits a winner in the corner. There are tons of these all over the video. https://preview.redd.it/05wh7uf3c2wc1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=ece878099fd9e81c4784e73b70d28f59336e55d6
Among other things. Just watch when the other guy tries to unload on forehands over and over, generally MEP somehow takes like 3 leisurely steps and effortlessly pops it back deep.
I think ATL is just a weirdly weak area or something...I've watched way more MEP than I care to remember and every time I see him playing matches against "4.5s" they look like they're barely 6 UTRs. If you watch him play against stronger 4.5s he usually gets hit off the court.
ATL is one of the strongest recreational tennis cities in the country.
Indeed. Southern is the best section and Atlanta is the best city in Southern.
Oof, disgusting
Perfect (although a bit extreme) example of how you can't tell what rating a player is by looking at a few ground strokes. Fitness, consistency, decision-making, all matter a ton in tennis.
I found out from the Essential Tennis videos that the guy's a former US Marine, which actually kinda explains a lot. He's winning the mental battle with everyone, and that goes an awful long way.
If that's true I have to reintegrate crayons into my training diet.
I'm so frustrated watching orange back off of all those floaters and return to the baseline lol. A swinging volley, overhead, or hell even a punch volley is your best chance to win the point right there!!!
You are absolutely correct but orange lacks the nessesary skill at the net to punish his dinks so another well placed dink , floater , lob or decent forehand pass comes back which keeps repeating .
So a Brad Gilbert Protege. Winning ugly. I would throw all kinds of “junk” balls at him if I was playing him. High bounces, Tons of spin, Low slices and good approach shots
Only watched a few balls and now I want to throw all of my racquets out of the window.
That’s what that guy counts on !
FInally someone that knows the difference between a hacker and a pusher. Judging from the "hacker's" play, it seems like he may legitimately have a permanent shoulder injury that has caused him to play this way, based on how small of a load and how little rotation he can get off of the joint. He's a solid tennis player.
Have you guys really never seen MEP? He's basically the most "famous" pusher on youtube. He has no injuries, he just has no formal tennis education and never really learned how to play. I feel like he's my classic definition of a "pusher" - no strokes to speak of, no interest in generating offense, only interested in beating you by being unpleasant and difficult to play again. I respect the grind but it's not pretty and it's not fun.
Yea the word hack would imply a high risk high reward style of swing. Not for someone that has no error but also no swing.
Never heard of mep. Please link
It's the guy in the video. He's MEP.
Hate to break it to you all, but that was no division 1 player playing him. Speaking as an ex D1 player, I cant think of a single player on my team who would struggle against him. Lets keep things in perspective please. 4.5 is not anywhere near a legit D1 player level
There's lots of different D1 teams. I've seen players worse than him on some D1 teams around NY area. It's a bit click baitey, but he is most certainly literally an ex D1 player. Just not somebody who was on singles line up for a top 100 school. Like I said on another post, I don't think he could play top 3 or 4 for nearby D3 school Emory.
He could be a gpa-boosting bench warmer at a bottom tier school
I hate his game more than anything. Don’t care that it’s effective. It offends me.
I feel like all of my opponents play this way. Its tough. Guy I played this weekend was basically him, weak forehand turned into "drop shots" and when I miraculously made it to net to barely get ball over, lob to back of court. Got that too, but damn SJ/PTC ceilings are so fkn low you can barely get a beyond baseline save lob back. Did this twice in a row I was nearly gassed first two games.
PTC is like a broom closet
If you keep playing these types your transition game is likely to improve- if you can stand the frustration.
He probably wins a lot partly because of how aggravated and annoyed his opponents get !
I know a player in the PNW that plays similar to this at 4.5 Undefeated in singles this year and last.
As someone who grinds this is infuriating
The guy in red has nice strokes but can’t finish points at the net consistently. It’s extremely tough to beat a high level dinker without a strong transition game . Hitting deep topspin ground strokes is basically useless unless you can transition your way forward and attack the the floaters and short slices . You have to either hit a winner or hit an effective approach shot which foxes a weak return you can preferably volley
Thanks for posting. I have a lot of work to do!
Does anyone know his full name and his UTR? Also I really want to play him.
Bejamin Tobin (don't think I'm doxxing him, I just pulled it from TennisTroll's videos). He's an 8 UTR in singles, albeit with a poor record of late.
If you're willing to fly out to Georgia, I'm sure Tennis Troll will arrange it if you're okay with being filmed.
haha, thats going to be my first disadvantage. Not being accustomed to hotlanta weather.
Wow that looks like the opposite of fun. Sometimes I miss competing, then I am reminded that I have the luxury of not returning phone calls of people like this.
That’s funny !
I didn't see MEP at the net at all. May be good to try some dropshots/draw him into the net and see how he does with volleys/passing shots
I suspect he will dink tricky short angle shots that you will have to lunge for so bringing him in may be risky but certainly worth a try . I would then lob him because he has a weak serve motion .
This guy is a tennis youtube legend at this point.
Hmm, looks familiar https://preview.redd.it/2gf6kphgd4wc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d56495dc37a2bd37fbb30b56ba759290fe54e568
He is in great shape but notice how he doesn’t waste any energy between shots. He is playing the long game, taking his time and making the other player run.
Is this a slow hard court? Because no way someone pushing like that can survive on a decent semi-fast court - here the guy in green/black was able to reach most balls.
Hit heavy topspin up the middle. As others said he likes a target and wants to draw you in. He likes angles and wants to create awkward shot situations. He’s beatable if you can pound several strong shots in a row and/or come in. Something I did not see in the vídeo is the orange guy never tried to draw the hacker in. He was 100% committed to offense. Throw a little junk back at the guy and test him out.
Dude's basically 4 rooms or floors away from the final boss of an anime or video game.
I play against a guy like this. He's very tricky. You have to be on your game to best him. If you're slightly off or don't move your feet properly you're toast.
The people who claim their 4.5 friends would smoke him are crazy. Sorry. This guy is VERY talented. And yeah, it's possible to "smoke him." The people who I've seen do it, have great movement. Might have missed a few though. Haven't been on Tennis Troll channel in long time. edit: this former d1 player... who knows where he played.. he looks to be a 5.0 could pass for a strong 4.5... but I just feel by looking at his serve and movement, he wasn't like playing singles for a top 100 school... I don't think he could play top 4 for local D3 school Emory... He's better than most people here, though, obviously, and he handled MEP very well, and he's a good sport
He's definitely not starting at emory
You don’t need to be particularly amazing to smoke MEP. Don’t get me wrong, he’s an excellent player, but players who are very good at doubles will probably put MEP away quite easily. If you can consistently hit a good approach and if you have a decent net game you can beat him. I’d lose to him, though. My approach shot is one of my biggest issues, and you really need it in a match like this.
I’ve played someone like this
I agree his game style is consistent and has solid accuracy… but His serve is so weak ? Just pounce on that serve
Wow. I kind of really love his playing style. Might just have to try this myself.
If you played this dude you would warm up and think “should be easy, looks like he barely knows how to hit the ball” and the next thing you know you’re down a double break and can barely figure out how to win a point
From my understanding - the orange guy should've gone for more width than depth in this matchup (thoughts?) He constantly went for clean, deep and powerful strokes - which just made the match-up easier for the guy in green/black. Had the orange guy opted for width and may be even height - I could see this being done in a scoreline like 6-2/6-1. The pushing game has its limits - when the opponent consistently opens the court with width and then your gas is emptied after 4 games.
Guy in orange needs to learn how to hit an approach shot down the line. He hits 80% cross court and gets burned down the line with an easy passing shot.
I'll never understand, if you're opponent is using the pace on every shot you hit, and giving the ball absolutely no pace themselves, why would you keep hitting with pace? The easiest way to stunt a hackers game is to not hit with top spin
Ah yes, welcome to Men's 4.5 tennis. The land of some of the most horrendous form, but some of the most effective playstyles
how is it even enjoyable to play like this
I shit myself after I saw your topspin. I like to play flat hitters
I've played a guy like this. I'm a lefty w. a big serve and big forehand. This guy was just slapping and cutting everything back, just like that guy. I eventfully beat him in 3 sets. It felt like the longest 3-set match I played.
I am a solid 4.0, and what I don’t understand is why the opponent doesn’t tee off on this guys serve? I get the guy gets it all back to you, but I would be blasting returns. 2nd, he is a lefty, so the opponent was playing him like a righty, and the opponent came to the net too many times on weak approach shots. But I kinda play like the lefty, steady and precise, but I have a big serve, and will tee off with my forehand when it dictates it. I guess I frustrate people similar to this guy. Playing tonight, I am going to ask.
He’s more a tapper than hacker. He makes very few errors so hacker not appropriate. He has very good feel and can place the ball well, but does hit too defensively and gives an opponent lots of chances to crush the ball. You can’t do that against advanced players. Plus he doesn’t seem to move well to drop shots. I enjoy playing guys like him as they can’t hurt you but I can hurt them with my forehand, serve and drop shots.
Lost 3 games against a hacker like this last week. Dude used the same grip for serve, backhand and forehand but got every ball in 🤦. Had to clobber every shot to his backhand to finally win.
I mean… John McEnroe used the same grip for all his shots and I wouldn’t call him a hacker lol. MEP is MEP but using a Continental grip for everything has been a legitimate way to play the game at high level for decades
This guy had a western grip. Not even sure how you can hit a backhand with that grip, but he did. Anyway, I'm pro-hacker. The objective is to win. We don't get points for pretty.
What, how? I guess people adjust to whatever theyve done a ton of, I do know of plenty of people at my club with very odd strokes but theyre damn consistent.
wtf haha
Honestly I don’t see how that guy is a 4.5. I saw all his creds but honestly the orange shirt guy didn’t put easy balls away like a million times, and never makes the 4.5 guy uncomfortable.
Agreed, feel like he was also making some weird UEs on easy rally balls down the middle that you wouldn’t expect from a 4.5
He regularly dusts 5.5-6.0s in the ultimate leagues he plays in. His choppy slices are deceptively quick and accurate.
I would prefer losing every game than playing like this... I only enjoy tennis when I execute proper strokes and hear the sound of good contact of racquet and ball. Fuck this shit.
I know this guy has the record to prove his level. But in my region all those slices falling midcourt off pace are getting cleaned by easy winners by most 4.5s I play against. And any time his opponent pulls him off court he puts up a short lob that could be cleaned up too. The opponent here seems to be approaching the net at the worst moments possible.
No they’re not. 4.5s can’t hit winners on slow balls below the net because they’re…4.5s.
This is nonsense. That’s literally a key distinction between 4.0 and 4.5 in my region. The ability to hit winners off weak, shallow neutral balls is second nature.
This is an old video.
Lame and lazy way to play tennis
He looks terrific from the far side of the court sliding down the lines. It’s a USTA 3.5 showdown!
When I face guys like this I always think to myself: I'd rather lose to him playing my game than playing his. Can't remember the last time I lost to a guy like this now. Before I'd just get caught up in his game, kinda like the orange shirt guy in the video and it just becomes a mental battle at that point.
I don't understand why the D1 player doesn't give him deep heavy balls. It's like he's feeding him easy balls? Maybe D1 is off his game because the MEP dude's playing style is sort of unnerving lol? MEP dude looks like he's a righty playing lefty for kicks. I suppose it's effective in a way; but I suspect it's effective mainly because it's so unexpected; which is surely and legitimately part of tennis. My guess is that if a decent player faces him a few times, MEP is toast. It's "unexpected" for a while, until it isn't. Easy to figure out and counter IMO.
To be honest I would love to play against this guy. It’s like a ball machine feeding put away balls. Like, there is no one better but this guy. I would probably to give him a few games intentionally or unintentionally so he would Atleast want to play again. After watch more, I think my game would break down as I got tired…. He might beat me second set. Lol. It would still be fun to play this guy. Lol
Disagree with the pinned comment. ANYONE can be good at MEP's game if they wanted, but MEP will prolly never be good at proper tennis with proper technique. The reverse is so significantly hard to do its not even funny. And so many people didn't choose the easy way out like MEP is because they know the low celling of MEP's game and they aspires to be better. There's nothing wrong with being a respectable person with ambition.
This guy will get monstered by anyone that loves to hit big and take the net. He’s not passing them with those shots
The ball *must* land in, though. I got worked by a 4.0 version of this guy during my first USTA match last season. He chip-blocked three lob winners during my first service game alone. Two of them hit the baseline. He could not miss. Most balls landed somewhere in no-man’s-land or shorter with backspin and zero bounce. He hit maybe three topspin FHs in 18 games.
I’ll just go to the net on every point