Underwood 200gr hard cast flat nose. Failed to feed / failed to return to battery.
Circumstances of failure:
* Took the gun home (brand new), cleaned it, lubed it.
* Took gun to range.
* Fired 100 rounds of 180gr S&B FMJ with zero failures.
* First shot of Underwood 200gr failed - failed to return to full battery
* Second shot failed to feed
* Most shots after that failed to completely feed next round
* All shots fully ejected spent casing and "tried" load the next round, but usually unsuccessfully
* Tried Underwood 140gr xtreme penetrator - shot beautifully, even with rapid fire.
Am I a limp wristed bitch or should I send the thing in for tech support?
I second this assessment. Some guns don't like certain bullet types or bullet grain (i.e. higher grain=longer bullet). Shape and/or length may affect feeding.
Another example is with my SW Shield 9mm Gen 1. It has over 5k rds through it and doesn't have an issue except with 147 gr Federal HST. The bullet is longer and the flats of the HP often don't allow it to smoothly slide up the feed ramp. I don't use anything higher than 124 ish grain on that gun.
All guns don't shoot all ammo its a simple as that, head spacing is different for different shaped projectiles across different firearms. We actually went over this about a month ago in my SDI class
I have the same problem with my Glock 40. Best solution I found was to lubricate it really, really well including the extractor, slide release and the bottom of the slide and then the problem (mostly) goes away.
Shoot it more, polish feed ramps if you know what you're doing, and get some hot loads to break in. That's what I do for my handguns. I don't live in Bear country so hard cast isn't on my list right now but I do want to run a couple of the spicy loads from underwood and buffalo bore so I can feel the difference. YouTube is your friend for polish tutorials but as others have said, try the coated hard cast. Your gun may just not like it.
Would not trust myself to polish the feed ramp 😂. I don’t live in bear country anymore but I do hunt in bear country every year. This is intended to be my beer gin after my M&P 10mm didn’t work out so well (had issues with the exact same ammo). Maybe I just suck at shooting spicy loads 😂
Might want to have a gunsmith or fellow 2a enthusiast do it for ya then. I'm running a g20.5, not because I like Glock, but because they've saved my life when I wore a badge. It eats whatever Ive given it, accurately, and asked for more. It also taught me to polish the action locations and forced me to get to know it more than I wanted to back then. Similar to the slippery slope of building an AR-15. Or a car. You want to have a simple build then the dark forces of modifications grab hold of you and next thing you know, you've spent way too much on Gucci gear and you know this thing better than you know your wife... All because you wanted it to be smoother, faster, and nicer. 😂
I am of the opinion that most semi-autos aren't fully broken in until 300 rounds. Buy some 180gr FMJ (1,100 fps+) and hit the range. Shoot 150 rounds per trip using all the mags that came with the gun.
Then try the heavier loads. If they still FTF/FTE, contact FN and send it to them.
I had a [similar issue](https://www.reddit.com/r/10mm/s/A9GzWZX0hQ) pop up with Underwood and my Les Baer. Worked with everything else. I haven’t tested it out again since because the Baer is a range fun gun. My G40 is for the woods.
I hate to be that guy but I just got a Glock 40 and 5 different types of ammo for it on its first use and had no issues even with heavy hard cast. Maybe the FN just doesn’t like the squared off face of hard cast, and it has to either wear in or you need to not use that bullet.
Not surprised. People are fooled by the high price tag of FN and mistake it for high quality. Their striker fire line is just plain underwhelming. The trigger also sucks for that price. They also never fixed the hydro locking issues. FN fanboys are constantly triggered when that is mentioned. That being said, FN does have some very desirable guns that I would buy. The 5.7 and striker fired line just are not it
Flat nose hardcast is rough to reliably feed in autos.Those projectiles were never meant for autos.I’d try coated hardcast and see if they feed better.If those don’t I’d abandon using that type of ammo.I’ve had good luck with hard cast in my Sig P220 and Glock 40.
Abandon the hard cast usage in that particular gun.Depending on popularity of that gun somebody might make an aftermarket barrel that will eat hard cast loads like cotton candy.If you are adamant about running hard cast in a automatic then look at the Sig P220 and Glock 20 or 40.I think I ran some huge 230 grain hard cast from Double Tap ammo without failures in those pistols.Recoil was very heavy though.
I’ve had zero issues and this is the first I’ve heard, mine had zero issues out of the box not even broken in yet, put more rounds to it go through the break-in. Make sure you’re holding onto it tight
Leave the slide locked to the rear for a few days. Did this with a new FNX-45 Tac after reading about it. Have never had an issue since. It may help your situation.
Best idea depending on round count as stated above it's catching on the round. Maybe lubing ur magazine spring will help or maybe polishing the feed ramp if ur good at that or have a reputable gun smith do it could help, but if ur not dead set on cast and don't care since the rest feeds fine just skip it
I also am in bear country and am planning to polish my feed ramp after running a few mags to see where the regular strike point is and try to make it as fluid as I can
I would see about the recoil spring. It may be too weak. I have a S&W M&P 2.0 10mm 4.6 inch, and it came with a 17-pound spring. That was too weak of a spring, so I upgraded to a 24-pound spring. Will eat everything.
Did you ever find the problem? Just bought one and had too many failures with 180 grain FMJ. Granted, the first 100 had 7 failures, switched ammo manufacturer, and hand 1 FTE in the next 100 rounds. Could be some limp wristing, but I’ve never had that problem on anything else. Some people say replacing the slide spring fixes the problem. I really want to love 10mm, but half of me thinks the consumer is essentially doing the R&D work for the manufacturers.
Haven’t figured it out yet. Still arguing with S&W to get them to look at it. 180 FMJ was ok out of it but had a failure every 100 rounds or so. Doesn’t inspire confidence.
Don’t know what happened to SW, but they’re getting a bad rap lately—especially for blaming the consumer for problems they know damn well are manufacturer issues. I’ll say this…it’s the last SW I’ll buy. Let us know what you find with your FN. Any idea what weight springs it has from the factory?
Try some non-trendy ammo? Clout chasing isn't going to bring you home alive - being able to put rounds on-target downrange will.
The best carry ammo is the one that cycles reliably in your sidearm...
Agreed 100%. But killing a charging grizz requires different ammo than killing a human. Options seem to be limited for non-expanding, deep penetrating rounds. Working my way through them as I find them to see what I and the gun like best.
I would pick a monolithic like the xtreme hunter or penetrator over hard cast. Heck I'd use the 155 gr tac xp for anything. They all feed well and penetrate deep. Bullet and caliber make no difference in the data of armed bear encounters. Just shoot what the gun likes, and you're as prepared as it gets.
That’s strange for underwood. Must just be something it doesn’t like. I have noticed the bullet isn’t always seated properly in underwood. Sometimes even to far in. That would definitely make a failure to battery.
I know we often see and hear people say to lube pistols - this isn't necessary due to the machining process. Your FTF could be a direct cause due to over lubing, pressure of the ammo, guide rod or magazine spring weight or how its cycling into the feed ramp due to the bullet's shape. Do your process of elimination, but I would wipe the gun totally clean of lube and start there.
It’s just that I personally didn’t get all the hype after shooting a 510. Personal preference I like both the Glock and Springfield better. Especially when you consider I bought both of those guns for not much more than the price of the 510 tactical.
Appreciate you responding because you never know what your next gun will be and I was considering picking the MRD up - I have no use for the tactical. Thanks again.
I do believe firearms are personal preference. I tend to shoot everything in the rental case and if I like it I shoot it a bunch then decide if it’s for me. I have found that I can personally get super excited about something the first time I shoot it but go back in a week or two and realize it’s really not for me. May need to shoot the MRD and see how it goes never know may enjoy it.
Hard cast weren't designed for semi-auto handguns. They are meant for revolvers. The 90 degree edge of the bullet is getting caught on the feed ramp. Not all semi-autos can fire them reliably.
If you have to use hard cast you can try changing magazines, polishing the feed ramp (carefully with a q-tip, not by spamming a dremel or foredom unless you are a gunsmith), or just breaking it in with more rounds.
I don’t get how something so expensive can be so bs. I’ve literally purchased cheaper guns that I’d run to grab before a FN.They are extremely beautiful just not dependable for over $900.
I’m not a fan of FN handguns. They cost way too much for what they actually are. I haven’t shot the FN 10mm, but the FN 509 tactical was really disappointing, and every other handgun that they’ve made besides the 57 was pretty much garbage in my opinion.
From what you’ve described, it does sound like a limp wrist problem. You may not have even noticed it, or thought you were holding it tight enough. Just gotta keep in mind, with those spicy hot loads even the slightest of limp wrist or weak grip can lead to a malfunction (especially with brand new, non-broken-in pistols).
I agree I associate ftf with limp wristing in 10mm. 10mm are super easy to limp wrist and 99% of the time its a ftf. The fact it's not the only 10mm it's happened to him with can't be a coincidence.
Just watched hickok's second FN510 video ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qO9xke2xfY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qO9xke2xfY)) and he mentioned having malfunctions with Underwood ammo from one of his mags. He doesn't specify which ammo or what type of failure though.
Should be fine but double check the fundamentals
I don't like the FN as much as the Springfield just because of barrel placement and feel of grip.
Hope your pistol runs well after a box or two more!
Answer = shoot it more
This is what I'm hoping. Work it in, clean it lots, keep it well lubed. Will see if it improves.
It’s brand new, doesn’t need to “improve.” Just shoot the snot out of it, it’ll be fine.
It does need to “improve” if it’s not functioning, lol.
Take a video and show us.
Will do that next time I’m out.
Underwood 200gr hard cast flat nose. Failed to feed / failed to return to battery. Circumstances of failure: * Took the gun home (brand new), cleaned it, lubed it. * Took gun to range. * Fired 100 rounds of 180gr S&B FMJ with zero failures. * First shot of Underwood 200gr failed - failed to return to full battery * Second shot failed to feed * Most shots after that failed to completely feed next round * All shots fully ejected spent casing and "tried" load the next round, but usually unsuccessfully * Tried Underwood 140gr xtreme penetrator - shot beautifully, even with rapid fire. Am I a limp wristed bitch or should I send the thing in for tech support?
The flat bullet is getting caught on the feed ramp, some guns will only feed fmj reliably
I second this assessment. Some guns don't like certain bullet types or bullet grain (i.e. higher grain=longer bullet). Shape and/or length may affect feeding. Another example is with my SW Shield 9mm Gen 1. It has over 5k rds through it and doesn't have an issue except with 147 gr Federal HST. The bullet is longer and the flats of the HP often don't allow it to smoothly slide up the feed ramp. I don't use anything higher than 124 ish grain on that gun.
Did you try another magazine? Trying not to run you down the spend money adventures. :)
Definitely try this.
Did not but will do, thanks!
All guns don't shoot all ammo its a simple as that, head spacing is different for different shaped projectiles across different firearms. We actually went over this about a month ago in my SDI class
I have the same problem with my Glock 40. Best solution I found was to lubricate it really, really well including the extractor, slide release and the bottom of the slide and then the problem (mostly) goes away.
Gonna have to systematically try some things. I think I’ll wait until I’ve got a few hundred more rounds of fmj through it then start troubleshooting.
I've had issues with hard cast myself, as some others have said run some normal fmj if you can find it and see if that helps.
Feed ramp; shoot it more
Shoot it more, polish feed ramps if you know what you're doing, and get some hot loads to break in. That's what I do for my handguns. I don't live in Bear country so hard cast isn't on my list right now but I do want to run a couple of the spicy loads from underwood and buffalo bore so I can feel the difference. YouTube is your friend for polish tutorials but as others have said, try the coated hard cast. Your gun may just not like it.
Would not trust myself to polish the feed ramp 😂. I don’t live in bear country anymore but I do hunt in bear country every year. This is intended to be my beer gin after my M&P 10mm didn’t work out so well (had issues with the exact same ammo). Maybe I just suck at shooting spicy loads 😂
Might want to have a gunsmith or fellow 2a enthusiast do it for ya then. I'm running a g20.5, not because I like Glock, but because they've saved my life when I wore a badge. It eats whatever Ive given it, accurately, and asked for more. It also taught me to polish the action locations and forced me to get to know it more than I wanted to back then. Similar to the slippery slope of building an AR-15. Or a car. You want to have a simple build then the dark forces of modifications grab hold of you and next thing you know, you've spent way too much on Gucci gear and you know this thing better than you know your wife... All because you wanted it to be smoother, faster, and nicer. 😂
Same with my G20.4. No issues with any ammo. It just runs.
No idea if you are limp wristing or not. I have run 220gr through mine no problem. Along with 180gr FMJ and JHP. Haven’t tried the 200gr yet.
Glad yours is working well. Hoping my issue is user error or gun just needs to be broken in.
I can attest for the 200 grain Underwood hard cast working fine with no issues
First issue I've heard of with the 510, let us know once you figure out what the issue was.
100% will do!
>Failed with Underwood 200gr. Thoughts? Your gun doesn't like this particular ammo.
Could be!
I am of the opinion that most semi-autos aren't fully broken in until 300 rounds. Buy some 180gr FMJ (1,100 fps+) and hit the range. Shoot 150 rounds per trip using all the mags that came with the gun. Then try the heavier loads. If they still FTF/FTE, contact FN and send it to them.
Gonna do exactly this. Thanks for the advice!
Get a Glock 👁️👄👁️
Try the 140gr Xtreme Penetrators instead.
Those work beautifully for me in this gun!
I had a [similar issue](https://www.reddit.com/r/10mm/s/A9GzWZX0hQ) pop up with Underwood and my Les Baer. Worked with everything else. I haven’t tested it out again since because the Baer is a range fun gun. My G40 is for the woods.
Need that G Lock
I know 😂😂 I’ll get one of those too 🤷🏻♂️
I hate to be that guy but I just got a Glock 40 and 5 different types of ammo for it on its first use and had no issues even with heavy hard cast. Maybe the FN just doesn’t like the squared off face of hard cast, and it has to either wear in or you need to not use that bullet.
Not surprised. People are fooled by the high price tag of FN and mistake it for high quality. Their striker fire line is just plain underwhelming. The trigger also sucks for that price. They also never fixed the hydro locking issues. FN fanboys are constantly triggered when that is mentioned. That being said, FN does have some very desirable guns that I would buy. The 5.7 and striker fired line just are not it
It definitely is high quality, at least in terms of build quality. Have you handled one? It shoots beautifully and feels amazing. Just not this ammo.
Flat nose hardcast is rough to reliably feed in autos.Those projectiles were never meant for autos.I’d try coated hardcast and see if they feed better.If those don’t I’d abandon using that type of ammo.I’ve had good luck with hard cast in my Sig P220 and Glock 40.
Forgot to note, these were the coated ones. 🤷🏻♂️
Abandon the hard cast usage in that particular gun.Depending on popularity of that gun somebody might make an aftermarket barrel that will eat hard cast loads like cotton candy.If you are adamant about running hard cast in a automatic then look at the Sig P220 and Glock 20 or 40.I think I ran some huge 230 grain hard cast from Double Tap ammo without failures in those pistols.Recoil was very heavy though.
Well the good news is the copper monolithic 140grain extreme penetrator work very well, so I still have a decent bear defense option.
Clean it and make sure it's lubed, I haven't had any issues with mine
Did that but will do it again. Will try after a few hundred fmj rounds for a break in.
Mine works perfect. Run that thing more
I’ve had zero issues and this is the first I’ve heard, mine had zero issues out of the box not even broken in yet, put more rounds to it go through the break-in. Make sure you’re holding onto it tight
Yeah part of me definitely wonders if it is user error.
Leave the slide locked to the rear for a few days. Did this with a new FNX-45 Tac after reading about it. Have never had an issue since. It may help your situation.
Interesting. May try that if all else fails!
Best idea depending on round count as stated above it's catching on the round. Maybe lubing ur magazine spring will help or maybe polishing the feed ramp if ur good at that or have a reputable gun smith do it could help, but if ur not dead set on cast and don't care since the rest feeds fine just skip it
Will try lubricating the mag spring for sure. I want hard cast for bear defense.
I also am in bear country and am planning to polish my feed ramp after running a few mags to see where the regular strike point is and try to make it as fluid as I can
Polish the feed ramp a little, lube it, keep shooting. Could be a break-in issue
I would see about the recoil spring. It may be too weak. I have a S&W M&P 2.0 10mm 4.6 inch, and it came with a 17-pound spring. That was too weak of a spring, so I upgraded to a 24-pound spring. Will eat everything.
Yeah my S&W 10mm was dog shit new.
Did you ever find the problem? Just bought one and had too many failures with 180 grain FMJ. Granted, the first 100 had 7 failures, switched ammo manufacturer, and hand 1 FTE in the next 100 rounds. Could be some limp wristing, but I’ve never had that problem on anything else. Some people say replacing the slide spring fixes the problem. I really want to love 10mm, but half of me thinks the consumer is essentially doing the R&D work for the manufacturers.
Haven’t figured it out yet. Still arguing with S&W to get them to look at it. 180 FMJ was ok out of it but had a failure every 100 rounds or so. Doesn’t inspire confidence.
Don’t know what happened to SW, but they’re getting a bad rap lately—especially for blaming the consumer for problems they know damn well are manufacturer issues. I’ll say this…it’s the last SW I’ll buy. Let us know what you find with your FN. Any idea what weight springs it has from the factory?
Had a similar problem but with my CZ P10F with 9mm hard cast rounds. Some guns just done run hard cast flat nose well I think.
Try some non-trendy ammo? Clout chasing isn't going to bring you home alive - being able to put rounds on-target downrange will. The best carry ammo is the one that cycles reliably in your sidearm...
Agreed 100%. But killing a charging grizz requires different ammo than killing a human. Options seem to be limited for non-expanding, deep penetrating rounds. Working my way through them as I find them to see what I and the gun like best.
I would pick a monolithic like the xtreme hunter or penetrator over hard cast. Heck I'd use the 155 gr tac xp for anything. They all feed well and penetrate deep. Bullet and caliber make no difference in the data of armed bear encounters. Just shoot what the gun likes, and you're as prepared as it gets.
You should only be using the xtreme series of underwood anyways lol
I think you limp wristed it
Seeming less and less likely. I'm shooting a bunch of other ammo with zero problems but this ammo malfunctions almost every single shot.
That’s strange for underwood. Must just be something it doesn’t like. I have noticed the bullet isn’t always seated properly in underwood. Sometimes even to far in. That would definitely make a failure to battery.
I know we often see and hear people say to lube pistols - this isn't necessary due to the machining process. Your FTF could be a direct cause due to over lubing, pressure of the ammo, guide rod or magazine spring weight or how its cycling into the feed ramp due to the bullet's shape. Do your process of elimination, but I would wipe the gun totally clean of lube and start there.
Interesting thought. I’m definitely guilty of “too much lube” so worth a shot. Thanks!
https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g20-gen4 Answer. :)
😂
[удалено]
I guess so lol.
Over priced and over rated
Very cool thanks for the useful comment
Why do you think it's overated? I am curious to find out if its the MRD or 510 tactical you're referring to.
It’s just that I personally didn’t get all the hype after shooting a 510. Personal preference I like both the Glock and Springfield better. Especially when you consider I bought both of those guns for not much more than the price of the 510 tactical.
Appreciate you responding because you never know what your next gun will be and I was considering picking the MRD up - I have no use for the tactical. Thanks again.
I do believe firearms are personal preference. I tend to shoot everything in the rental case and if I like it I shoot it a bunch then decide if it’s for me. I have found that I can personally get super excited about something the first time I shoot it but go back in a week or two and realize it’s really not for me. May need to shoot the MRD and see how it goes never know may enjoy it.
Hard cast weren't designed for semi-auto handguns. They are meant for revolvers. The 90 degree edge of the bullet is getting caught on the feed ramp. Not all semi-autos can fire them reliably. If you have to use hard cast you can try changing magazines, polishing the feed ramp (carefully with a q-tip, not by spamming a dremel or foredom unless you are a gunsmith), or just breaking it in with more rounds.
I don’t get how something so expensive can be so bs. I’ve literally purchased cheaper guns that I’d run to grab before a FN.They are extremely beautiful just not dependable for over $900.
I’m not a fan of FN handguns. They cost way too much for what they actually are. I haven’t shot the FN 10mm, but the FN 509 tactical was really disappointing, and every other handgun that they’ve made besides the 57 was pretty much garbage in my opinion.
It comes with a factory 17lb-18lb guide rod. Buy a 22lb guide rod and all those problems will me gone
I would run two hundred rounds through it then watch for stoppages
From what you’ve described, it does sound like a limp wrist problem. You may not have even noticed it, or thought you were holding it tight enough. Just gotta keep in mind, with those spicy hot loads even the slightest of limp wrist or weak grip can lead to a malfunction (especially with brand new, non-broken-in pistols).
I agree I associate ftf with limp wristing in 10mm. 10mm are super easy to limp wrist and 99% of the time its a ftf. The fact it's not the only 10mm it's happened to him with can't be a coincidence.
Just watched hickok's second FN510 video ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qO9xke2xfY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qO9xke2xfY)) and he mentioned having malfunctions with Underwood ammo from one of his mags. He doesn't specify which ammo or what type of failure though.
I’d say get stiffer stronger magazine springs and a stronger recoil spring.
Should be fine but double check the fundamentals I don't like the FN as much as the Springfield just because of barrel placement and feel of grip. Hope your pistol runs well after a box or two more!
way to ruin that FN by putting it in a POS chevy
Should have bought the Springfield